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Old 09-17-2008, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,715,651 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I had a feeling that this home truth regarding poverty in the U.S. would be completely ignored. After all, we are the land of plenty and if we won't give our resources up willingly to other country's inhabitants, we should be guilted into it at the very least, right?
My putative 'First World guilt' has died...........along with that guilt of many other Americans of any race/ethnicity.
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Old 09-17-2008, 02:46 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,651,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I had a feeling that this home truth regarding poverty in the U.S. would be completely ignored. After all, we are the land of plenty and if we won't give our resources up willingly to other country's inhabitants, we should be guilted into it at the very least, right?
I'm not sure if you got involved in our "white guilt" thread some months ago (on the Politics forum)...as I recall, I re-named it "western protestant guilt". But you're CLOSE. I honestly feel that MANY of us unconsciously feel that the poorest trailer-dweller in Kentuckky DOES have some sort of an advantage over any upwardly-striving resident of Mexico, even if this hypothetical Mexican isn't destitute. The "hillbilly" is an AMERICAN, he's pretty obviously "white", and there is just really no excuse for his condition, other than a stubborn, self-destructive "Mountain Pride"...in short, the "hillbilly" is poor because he's too stubborn to move..the illegal is poor because he's the "victim of his culture".

Many of these folks would never SAY it, because it sounds too offensive..but if they DID, what they said MIGHT be something like.."The poor illegal can't HELP his poverty. After all, he's not white, and "those people" have NEVER had an easy time 'making it'. The Kentucky trailer-dweller, on the other hand? SHAME on him! He's WHITE, and he has every advantage in the world. Any white who allows himself to descend into THAT level of poverty has ONLY HIMSELF to blame. He's white, after all, and DARN IT, he ought to KNOW BETTER !!"

Now, I imagine you can see why few people responded to you. As I said in the "guilt" thread, this 'overly-solicitous' attitude by our well-meaning liberal 'helpers' toward the 'disadvantaged' is often little more than thinly-veiled racism..."they're non-whites, and they can't HELP getting into messes..it's up to us (whites) to 'rescue' them, because we 'know better' "
Obviously, the 'Kentucky Hillbilly', in this scenario, is going to 'fall through the cracks'...

I've even seen this in my own life. Over the years, my wife has often come home with a story about nice, well-meaning white folks at work or in the supermarket, who take the time to give her "advice" about all sorts of things...things she PROBABLY never considered, because she's not white. On occasion, they even do this in front of ME (!). At such times, you can either get mad, or you can laugh at it. We normally choose the latter.
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Old 09-17-2008, 05:18 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,033,758 times
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To paraphrase Robin Williams' ancient aphorism about cocaine, "Being a bleeding heart liberal is God's way of telling you you're making too much money."

Honestly, I can't begin to participate in discourse about issues of the non-working poor and their so-called guilt about every single populace in the entire world outside of the U.S., because I've seen all possible economic strata right here in my own country, and am working poor myself. My friends' and my own life is NOT one of faux dependence on illegals. We do all that stuff for ourselves.

Although I'm a freelancer, I live under the current aphorism that goes "most of us are only three paychecks away from homelessness ourselves." So many of the urban, non-demented poor have experienced medical or other catastrophies that wiped them out. The rural poor, of which I have experience through my farming relatives, often live a life similar to a freelancer which is hallmarked by feast or famine. Agriculture is a tiny profit-margin business, dependent on loans, weather and world markets, none of which are reliable; furthermore, there are strict government regulations regarding those loans and markets. Do badly for two years in a row and your family could starve and your house be foreclosed.

There remains a huge disconnect between urban dwellers understanding the lot of our own rural residents. Posters failing to empathize with our fellow citizens in favor of hideously criminal illegals only underscores that disconnect.
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Old 09-18-2008, 11:45 PM
 
2,141 posts, read 7,054,476 times
Reputation: 1249
Quote:
Originally Posted by fastfilm View Post
Chinolala, this is intended as a benign question: where do you live? We all are posting with information from our immediate environs, augmented by occasional statistics. The vocational situations you describe appear quite different than what I'm reporting on in the nation's worst case scenario.

Here in Los Angeles, most of the starter-level jobs, with the exception of the whitest of white collar jobs, are flooded with illegals. Skilled American construction workers cannot get hired, etc. Moreover, applicants who do not speak the language of another country automatically are excused, which translates to excusing American young people desperate for work experience as well as funds entree to the working world. This insidious prejudice is beginning to sound like the corruption aluded to in other countries.

And that is perhaps the point. Americans do not want their own country transmogrified into Third World standards, philosophical, socioeconomic or otherwise. Macmeal's recent rejoinders to my last posts here really made me ruminate on what is so quickly disappearing in L.A. (besides the usual and trivial nostalgia points): a sense of living in a First World country like the U.S.A. ebbs away with every claim that illegals matter more than U.S. citizens, and every claim that breaking any and all laws in the name of illegal immigration is A-okay because it was done in the "home" country, and that one's own family/ethnicity/tribe supercede any or all adherence to American laws.

Here in L.A. we are being overtaxed to pay for services for illegals (services that citizens never receive) so the tepid argument of saving monies is untrue in the extreme. Furthermore, we don't pay less for services, commodities, housing etc. compared to the rest of the U.S. The apologists for illegals never seem to want to factor in the real costs to American citizens, of which I previously posted.
I live in Chicago. Our taxes are very high. I believe we have the highest sales tax in the nation at 10.25% and that is on everything, including food. Cook County's taxes are also very high at 9%. The lowest you'll find gas here is $3.98 a gallon with most places charging over $4.00 a gallon. In the 2000 census we had 1.1 million Mexicans and you know that's not including illegals.
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