U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
Old 09-18-2008, 12:32 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
The numbers are wrong. But again the hospitals supply certain services to residents of the area. In some cases hospitals take advantage of other hospitals to unload chronic poor patients...

When we fix the illegal problem we solve all this. They become simply poor legals, which will probably be another source of battles over funding or they go home where they become a Mexican problem.

These people almost exclusively come to the US to work...and they do work and very hard. The get sick and it has to be dealt with.

And there are I am sure some small minority who take advantage of the system and come for medical care. Such is life.
What numbers are wrong? Show me hard evidence that the figures given are wrong.

It is not a small minority that do this- the dialysis unit at Grady in Atlanta almost shut down because it was flooded with illegals. The unit treated an average of 90 patients a day and 30% of them were non-paying illegal aliens. You do the math. And there is no reason to think that Grady is the only hospital in the US where this is happening.

Do you understand that America is s sovereign nation? Do you understand that the US healthcare system was initially set up to serve the needs of American citizens and those legally in our country? It was never intended to provide free care to millions of illegals, nor was it designed with that in mind. The problems in our healthcare system are being made worse than they already are by rampant abuse, scamming, bilking and swindling perpetrated by illegal aliens.

I take it you live in a dwelling of some sort- an apartment, a house, a condo, a yurt, whatever. Let's say you live in a house and you have a yard. if a group of people enter your home uninvited and announces they are not going to leave, how would you react to that? How about if they said they would mow your lawn each week and in return you have to allow them free access to your phone and TV, allow them to eat anything they wanted in your refrigerator, drive your car whenever they felt like it, pay for any medical care they required, throw raucous parties in your backyard whenever the mood struck them and provide free schooling for their kids? Would you go along with that?

 
Old 09-18-2008, 12:57 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,491,985 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What numbers are wrong? Show me hard evidence that the figures given are wrong.
Uhh find your own hard evidence. It is relatively easy. the going quoted rate for most dialysis is $1,000 a week. Medicaid budgets it at $30,000 per annum.

Quote:
It is not a small minority that do this- the dialysis unit at Grady in Atlanta almost shut down because it was flooded with illegals. The unit treated an average of 90 patients a day and 30% of them were non-paying illegal aliens. You do the math. And there is no reason to think that Grady is the only hospital in the US where this is happening.
I doubt very much there is a single dialysis patient at Grady that came to that hospital from Mexico for the sole purpose of achieving cheap and effective medical care. It is not a place that would be commonly picked by an ill Mexican. They are very likely local residents taken ill.


Quote:
Do you understand that America is s sovereign nation? Do you understand that the US healthcare system was initially set up to serve the needs of American citizens and those legally in our country? It was never intended to provide free care to millions of illegals, nor was it designed with that in mind. The problems in our healthcare system are being made worse than they already are by rampant abuse, scamming, bilking and swindling perpetrated by illegal aliens.
Where did you get that? I don't think the subject of citizenship with respect to medical care had even been though of until the last 30 years or so. In fact the whole idea you put forth is somewhat repugnant to the US as the nation of immigrants. Medical care went to residents without much interest in legality.


Quote:
I take it you live in a dwelling of some sort- an apartment, a house, a condo, a yurt, whatever. Let's say you live in a house and you have a yard. if a group of people enter your home uninvited and announces they are not going to leave, how would you react to that? How about if they said they would mow your lawn each week and in return you have to allow them free access to your phone and TV, allow them to eat anything they wanted in your refrigerator, drive your car whenever they felt like it, pay for any medical care they required, throw raucous parties in your backyard whenever the mood struck them and provide free schooling for their kids? Would you go along with that?
People rent them places to live. They pay taxes directly or indirectly. That generally gives them the rights of taxpayers.

Look we all agree that the situation needs to be resolved. You think they should all be sent home one way or the other. I claim that is not going to happen for reason that deal with practicality and political will.

Citing poisoned anecdotes about crime or health care or whatever is simply propaganda. It does not move the ball forward.

So either your side needs to manage to motivate a large scale movement to throw them out...which I believe has and will continue to fail...or you need to get out of the way and let the other solution occur.

Otherwise we remain stuck with the worst of both worlds.
 
Old 09-18-2008, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,366,957 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Your inability to understand plan english is clear GD. Talk to your wife...maybe she can recoommend someone who can help you.
As I said - go dry out -
 
Old 09-18-2008, 02:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
What is plan english and how does one go about getting a "recoomendation"?

Just curious.
 
Old 09-18-2008, 03:32 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What is plan english and how does one go about getting a "recoomendation"?

Just curious.
I can't speak for "plan english"...maybe some sort of retirement scheme for residents of the UK (?)...that, I don't know. But a "recoomendation" shouldn't be hard to understand. It's when you vouch for someone's integrity or ability to do something, because you judge him to be a "god guy for the job"...
 
Old 09-18-2008, 03:37 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I can't speak for "plan english"...maybe some sort of retirement scheme for residents of the UK (?)...that, I don't know. But a "recoomendation" shouldn't be hard to understand. It's when you vouch for someone's integrity or ability to do something, because you judge him to be a "god guy for the job"...
Well, thanks for straightening that out for me.

My best friend at University is a Brit. I guess I'll have to ask her about the "plan english."
 
Old 09-18-2008, 04:05 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,491,985 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What is plan english and how does one go about getting a "recoomendation"?

Just curious.
Got to type slower...

I also tend to not proof read these little interchanges with GD. It is pointless.
 
Old 09-18-2008, 04:21 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Check around GD...there appear to be a few of them here.

And no they can't come legally. And that is likely a good thing. Now we need to figure a way to keep them from coming illegally.

Your approach of saying bad things about them likely will not yield strong results.
Actually: saying 'bad things' about 'them' (illegal immigrants) is helping to turn public opinion against them
 
Old 09-18-2008, 04:38 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Uhh find your own hard evidence. It is relatively easy. the going quoted rate for most dialysis is $1,000 a week. Medicaid budgets it at $30,000 per annum. etc., etc.
Read this:

Quote:
Ill Mexican nationals go home
Repatriation offered to those in Denver with serious medical needs


Hundreds of Mexican illegal immigrants are in Colorado not just for work but also for free medical care they say they can't get back home. Now, Mexican officials have agreed to bring some home and help them find doctors there.
But many of these illegal immigrants - including Eloina Meza, a single mother of a disabled boy ...- see little incentive to return to a country where comparable opportunities don't exist.
Juan Marcos Gutierrez, Mexico's consul general in Denver, confirmed a new deal negotiated with ...chief of the Denver Health and Hospital Authority.
Under the agreement, Denver health workers who provide kidney dialysis to illegal immigrants are guiding those who are willing to Mexico's consulate in Denver.
The immigrants are told they can receive free travel home and help finding appropriate health care - though they get no assurance it will be free.
Mexican officials also will repatriate other illegal immigrants with serious medical needs besides failing kidneys, Gutierrez said. He said he didn't know how many immigrants might qualify.
"I won't repatriate someone with the flu or a cold," he said. "We are talking chronic diseases, difficult medical conditions."
The goal, Gutierrez said, is to "give an option to our nationals. But it is not my duty ... to relieve (U.S.) hospital budgets."
He pointed out that illegal immigrants often pay taxes that support public health care here.
Denver health officials are prohibited by law from checking the legal status of immigrants they serve. But records show about 1,500 emergency-room patients a year are unable to give a U.S. Social Security number for billing purposes.
<snip>
Yet many illegal immigrants are reluctant to rely on Mexico's government, saying that Mexico's poverty, inequality and widespread lack of access to medical care drove many of them north in the first place.
"(The government's offer) is nice. I like the idea. But here, I trust the doctors more. I trust everyone here more," said a 32- year-old illegal-immigrant aircraft-maintenance worker who spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing authorities would use his name to find him.
Ill Mexican nationals go home - The Denver Post
 
Old 09-18-2008, 04:57 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,710,869 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Uhh find your own hard evidence. It is relatively easy. the going quoted rate for most dialysis is $1,000 a week. Medicaid budgets it at $30,000 per annum.
National Kidney Foundation:

"Although immunosuppressive drugs are very expensive, costing $10,000 -20,000 per year, if the kidney transplant fails, the person returns to dialysis at a cost of over $65,000 per year to Medicare. In addition, there are over 75,000 people on the waiting list for kidney transplant, and it's poor stewardship to lose a kidney because the patient can't afford the necessary drugs to keep it working."

National Kidney Foundation: Help Extend Coverage for Immunosuppressive Drugs (House) (http://tinyurl.com/3ptayd - broken link)



Quote:
I doubt very much there is a single dialysis patient at Grady that came to that hospital from Mexico for the sole purpose of achieving cheap and effective medical care. It is not a place that would be commonly picked by an ill Mexican. They are very likely local residents taken ill.
see article from the Denver Post


Quote:
Where did you get that? I don't think the subject of citizenship with respect to medical care had even been though of until the last 30 years or so. In fact the whole idea you put forth is somewhat repugnant to the US as the nation of immigrants. Medical care went to residents without much interest in legality.
People are becoming more and more interested in illegal aliens' use of our medical system as hospitals close and Americans sit in an ER for 6 hours before being seen because the waiting room is full of illegals.

Quote:
People rent them places to live. They pay taxes directly or indirectly. That generally gives them the rights of taxpayers.

Look we all agree that the situation needs to be resolved. You think they should all be sent home one way or the other. I claim that is not going to happen for reason that deal with practicality and political will.

Citing poisoned anecdotes about crime or health care or whatever is simply propaganda. It does not move the ball forward.

So either your side needs to manage to motivate a large scale movement to throw them out...which I believe has and will continue to fail...or you need to get out of the way and let the other solution occur.

Otherwise we remain stuck with the worst of both worlds.
They may pay $17.56 in taxes and get $10,000 of medical care. And they are not supposed to be here in the first place.
By the way............you never did tell me how you liked the idea of having a family of illegal aliens move into your place and in return for them mowing your lawn, you will provide all sorts of goodies for them. I mean, what's not to like about it?
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top