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Old 09-19-2008, 07:32 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,599,059 times
Reputation: 2661

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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The 'homeless drunks', as you refer to them, are American citizens. Because they are American citizens, we as a society are obligated to provide them with medical care (covered by Medicaid if they are destitute) and attempt to help them overcome their addiction to alcohol. The elderly have worked all their lives and paid into the system. They are entitled to medical care and frankly, I don't ever see a time where our senior citizens will be denied care. Americans with mental illnesses also need to be treated in the hopes their problem can be corrected and they can return to being a productive member of society. Any of the above have contributed far more to society than some pregnant illegal who crosses the border when it is time to squat. As a matter of fact, even if an alcoholic or patient with mental illness has made no contribution at all, they are still ahead of such illegals because their overall impact is neutral as opposed to a net negative.
who says the homeless drunks are American Citizens? Maybe..maybe not. One might well be a known criminal alien from Cuba.

Who says the elderly have paid into the system? Or the metally ill. Lots of the mentally ill go through life without ever once making a dime. Simply living off the good will of society. And these folk may well have not contributed anything of substance to our society as compared to a guy who has built houses 60 hurs a week for the last 10 years.

Quote:
Illegals who show up at our hospitals should be seen, have their condition stabilized and returned to their home country for further treatment.
Why would that be. Got sick here. American germs. Get well here. Perfectly sensible. And the way it has always been done.

Quote:
If these hardworking illegals contribute sooooo much to our country, if they were really important, then there would be ways for them to come here legally. There are not. If they truly make such tremendous contributions where ever they lived, other countries would be trying to lure them there. They are not. They don't want them anymore than we do. And if they are such a financial benefit, why is CA going bankrupt? They have the largest number of illegals of any state. No contest.
There you go again "soooooo much". Who said that? The contribute which is pretty much enough for native and immigrants...why change it on illegal immigrants.

California going broke over illegals? You have lost your mind. Completely. This is anti stuff is bad for the intellect. Shuts the thought processes right down.

 
Old 09-19-2008, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,455,840 times
Reputation: 4893
California - 6+ Billion in the red because of illegals
 
Old 09-19-2008, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,952,069 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
who says the homeless drunks are American Citizens? Maybe..maybe not. One might well be a known criminal alien from Cuba.

Who says the elderly have paid into the system? Or the metally ill. Lots of the mentally ill go through life without ever once making a dime. Simply living off the good will of society. And these folk may well have not contributed anything of substance to our society as compared to a guy who has built houses 60 hurs a week for the last 10 years.



Why would that be. Got sick here. American germs. Get well here. Perfectly sensible. And the way it has always been done.



There you go again "soooooo much". Who said that? The contribute which is pretty much enough for native and immigrants...why change it on illegal immigrants.

California going broke over illegals? You have lost your mind. Completely. This is anti stuff is bad for the intellect. Shuts the thought processes right down.
If you are going to play the what if game:
Got sick here? How do we know they were not sick when they came here? No physical was ever done.
Regardless of the elderly having paid in or not, or the mentally ill that argument is without merit. As US citizens they are due these benefits due to being a US Citzen or (Legal) resident. Illegals are not nor should they be.
Illegal contributions: The guy who built houses for 10 years who also did not pay taxes, Who also low balled the work putting legals out of work who did pay their taxes. He didn't have Insurance or a licence and so moved often here today gone tomorow used an allias and so did not stand behind his work. Now the homeowners are stuck with a house that was poorly constructed. Great contribution. I will admit not all illegals do shoddy work but many many do. Woe unto those who hire them. They deserve what they get.
Native as in legal citizens contribute and its enough because they are in fact here legally. Illegals as a whole however take much more than they contribute and demand more still.
Sorry no sale
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,704,952 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
who says the homeless drunks are American Citizens? Maybe..maybe not. One might well be a known criminal alien from Cuba.

Who says the elderly have paid into the system? Or the metally ill. Lots of the mentally ill go through life without ever once making a dime. Simply living off the good will of society. And these folk may well have not contributed anything of substance to our society as compared to a guy who has built houses 60 hurs a week for the last 10 years.



Why would that be. Got sick here. American germs. Get well here. Perfectly sensible. And the way it has always been done.



There you go again "soooooo much". Who said that? The contribute which is pretty much enough for native and immigrants...why change it on illegal immigrants.

California going broke over illegals? You have lost your mind. Completely. This is anti stuff is bad for the intellect. Shuts the thought processes right down.
Proof please------------read that links not just your personal opinion.
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:23 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,599,059 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
If you are going to play the what if game:
Got sick here? How do we know they were not sick when they came here? No physical was ever done.
If you come here legally no physical is done. But let that be. Some come here sick...so what?

Quote:
Regardless of the elderly having paid in or not, or the mentally ill that argument is without merit. As US citizens they are due these benefits due to being a US Citzen or (Legal) resident. Illegals are not nor should they be.
Illegal contributions:
Where is that written down. Where does it say that only the illegal should be denied medical care? It seems to me virtually all the laws and regulations are silent on legality. So it would seem a native or a legal or an illegal have the same rights. I though the argument here was that was not true as the non illegals had earned their benefits. But then again some legals have not earned anything. So again we have the mystic legal/illegal which determines worth for medical care. Does not make much sense to me.


Quote:
The guy who built houses for 10 years who also did not pay taxes, Who also low balled the work putting legals out of work who did pay their taxes. He didn't have Insurance or a licence and so moved often here today gone tomorow used an allias and so did not stand behind his work. Now the homeowners are stuck with a house that was poorly constructed.
Who told you that? Virtually every house in Las Vegas likely had illegals in at least some crews. I would expect the same thing in Phoenix. So there are no "good" houses in Las Vegas or Phoenix?

Who says they paid no taxes? The long termer likely paid it all along even though they will never get the benefit. About half of the illegals pay witholding taxes and the rest pay sales and property.

Quote:
Great contribution. I will admit not all illegals do shoddy work but many many do. Woe unto those who hire them. They deserve what they get.
Native as in legal citizens contribute and its enough because they are in fact here legally. Illegals as a whole however take much more than they contribute and demand more still.
Sorry no sale
Again based on what? Any social program payment they get are based on citizen children. Otherwise they get nothing. They pay a lot of taxes they will never collect. They send children to school but they pay taxes that cover that.

I think illegals are a very bad idea that should never have been allowed to occur. We allowed a low socio-economic demographic from Mexico to invade our country to the level that the invasion is irreversible. So we can *****, moan and let it continue or legalize what can't be fixed and try again to stop further influx.
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:27 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,599,059 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Proof please------------read that links not just your personal opinion.
Prove what for goodness sake. Your really believe California is going to go bankrupt over illegal aliens?

If you think that I don't believe any proof of anything would be of value.

Hey I got a bridge in Alaska you might want to buy...
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:32 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,599,059 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
California - 6+ Billion in the red because of illegals

Garbage. Includes cost of American citizen children who are over half the cost and are not illegal.

And that is a cost. Has nothing to do with the budget deficit which is vastly higher than that.

CA is in trouble because it spends way to much money on virtually everything.
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:35 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,740,104 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Prove what for goodness sake. Your really believe California is going to go bankrupt over illegal aliens?

If you think that I don't believe any proof of anything would be of value.

Hey I got a bridge in Alaska you might want to buy...
Olecapt, there are not many of us on the forum, but we appreciate and look forward to your posts and would miss you if you were not here.
Sassy
 
Old 09-19-2008, 08:42 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,740,104 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
The number is the cost of dialysis in an ER setting for one year at that specific hospital. It will differ for other hospitals but I can guarantee you no matter what the figure is, it is going to be alot of money.
Do you understand that illegals use the EMTALA as their ticket to get into the US healthcare system? If an illegal needing dialysis shows up at a freestanding dialysis center, they DO NOT have to treat him. If an illegal with no insurance and no money shows up, they can tell him that they cannot care for him. They are not required by law to do so. On the other hand, an ER is. If the uninsured illegal shows up in an ER he HAS to be treated.

A hospital dialysis unit is typically not open 24/7. Appointments are scheduled during the day and evening. In a hospital, dialysis also takes place in areas other than the dialysis unit. If an ICU patient is too sick to be moved to the unit, a dialysis RN or tech brings a portable dialysis machine and treats the patient in the ICU. Patients are dialyzed in the ER. If it's Sunday afternoon and the dialysis unit is closed, the dialysis will be done in the ER.

The bottom line is that illegal aliens receiving dialysis courtesy of the US taxpayer is very expensive.
If the 4 illegal aliens receive dialysis and the cost is only $65,000 per year, that costs us $260,000.
If the 30 illegal aliens at Grady receive dialysis at $65,000 a year, that costs us $1,950,000.

There is no excuse for this. There is no reason the government of Mexico could not provide adequate dialysis facilities for these people. Instead of spending their money setting up Consulates in every state in the US, they could be purchasing dialysis machines to help their own people.

I am not wasting anymore time on you. It is obvious you have no idea what you are talking about.
There is also no excuse for the costs of proceedures, prescriptions
in this country, you know us, the legal Americans that are screwed by the Medical association. I guess the ones that cannot afford it
just die, population control comes to mind ( borrowed that from you AzBear)
 
Old 09-19-2008, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,704,952 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
Prove what for goodness sake. Your really believe California is going to go bankrupt over illegal aliens?

If you think that I don't believe any proof of anything would be of value.

Hey I got a bridge in Alaska you might want to buy...
Quit ducking my request for verification, OK?

More and more: your credibility is approaching zero in my eyes as well.
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