U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-05-2007, 11:50 AM
 
Location: deep in the south
233 posts, read 389,677 times
Reputation: 117

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What about the 2,500 children in Africa who die every single day of every single week of every single year from starvation and disease? Do they not have the moral right to be here?

The Honduras do not even make the top 50 list of the most impoverished countries in the world. As a matter of fact, compared to those countries, the folks in the Honduras are living the high life. Do your morals only extend to those folks whose poverty regions are south of the U.S. border?

You profess the moral high ground on this issue, but in reality, your post is typical of apologist hypocrisy.

The United States of America cannot save the world, nor should we be expected to. We have a substantial number of people in our own country who have been marginalized and hung out to dry, whose poverty level matches or exceeds many Latin American countries. Where are their champions? Why must we import impoverished people from south of our border to save when there are several million of our fellow Americans living below the poverty level in our own backyards?

If your desire is to help those in need, then I suggest that you take to heart that old adage, "Charity begins at home." If you feel that you must alleviate poverty in other countries, join the Peace Corp. or send donations to an organization which works to reduce poverty in third world countries.

Personally, I'll stick with organizations such as "Feed the Children" who work to assuage hunger, poverty, and need right here in the United States. There are plenty of Americans who need and deserve our attention and assistance. When hunger and poverty is wiped out in this country, only then will I consider turning my attention elsewhere.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
Excellent post with valid argument Kele! We have so many here, plenty that have lost much directly because of this problem and yet there are no groups fighting to give them a hand. Many of those are veterans who have fought for us all and yet their benefits get cut and they end up slipping thru societys cracks because it is impossible to help everyone and hard choices have to be made, you have to draw a line somewhere and our obligations need to be to the citizens of this country and those here legally. When we get our own house in order and wipe out the hardships too many Americans face then we can be open hearted and help others. This country needs to be kept strong otherwise we won't be in a position to be helping anyone, least of all ourselves. To demoralize a large portion of the population by shoving this down the throats of those who are against it will do more harm in the long run than I think most realize, we are in effect telling them that even tho they are Americans by birth and legal choice they have no real worth as far as this country is concerned and their voices don't count and that certain people will be allowed to decide on which laws they will follow..................brings up all kind of nasty scenarios to me. Again, GREAT POST!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-05-2007, 12:37 PM
 
47 posts, read 114,226 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
What about the 2,500 children in Africa who die every single day of every single week of every single year from starvation and disease? Do they not have the moral right to be here?

The Honduras do not even make the top 50 list of the most impoverished countries in the world. As a matter of fact, compared to those countries, the folks in the Honduras are living the high life. Do your morals only extend to those folks whose poverty regions are south of the U.S. border?

You profess the moral high ground on this issue, but in reality, your post is typical of apologist hypocrisy.

The United States of America cannot save the world, nor should we be expected to. We have a substantial number of people in our own country who have been marginalized and hung out to dry, whose poverty level matches or exceeds many Latin American countries. Where are their champions? Why must we import impoverished people from south of our border to save when there are several million of our fellow Americans living below the poverty level in our own backyards?

If your desire is to help those in need, then I suggest that you take to heart that old adage, "Charity begins at home." If you feel that you must alleviate poverty in other countries, join the Peace Corp. or send donations to an organization which works to reduce poverty in third world countries.

Personally, I'll stick with organizations such as "Feed the Children" who work to assuage hunger, poverty, and need right here in the United States. There are plenty of Americans who need and deserve our attention and assistance. When hunger and poverty is wiped out in this country, only then will I consider turning my attention elsewhere.
Yeah they do have a moral right to be here. Typical American, refusing to see the other side. There is no sense in arguing with you because it will be like talking to a brick wall.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 12:40 PM
 
47 posts, read 114,226 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
What about the hundreds of millions of other impoverished, poorly educated people of Latin America? Do they too 'morally have a right to be here because they are doing only what is right for them by providing for their families, who live in poverty' or does this only apply to your family? If these millions of Latin Americans have this moral right to come here illegally, how are we going to pay for this? And who is going to pay for it? And how is adding millions of unskilled workers lacking a HS education to our population going to benefit the United States of America?
Many people on this forum come here because they are considering a move and want information concerning places to live. I don't think I have ever seen anyone looking for a neighborhood with a majority of illegal aliens. Nor have I ever seen anyone seeking out a school district where most of the students are illegal aliens or children of illegal aliens. If the illegal aliens are so very beneficial to society, why is it no one seems to be seeking them out as neighbors?
Yes they do...I feel anyone who is escaping impoverished, corrupt countries has the moral right to be here. I myself have not experienced any problems because of illegal aliens. No one wants to live near them because as Americans they feel the are "higher than thou," or are prejudice.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,200,288 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by perfecttan01 View Post
My children work every day after school and on weekends, even the youngest.
The older ones if they don't work they don't get gas money to drive, the younger loses their allowance.
I have never had a problem, start them when they are young, it becomes a way of life.
I will have to admitt that the kids in California are afraid to get their hands dirty.
It's discusting.
I was born and raised on a Dairy Farm In Michigan. Work was all we did, and we looked at it as a way of life.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Rural Central Texas
3,581 posts, read 9,002,297 times
Reputation: 5402
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
The only people who are paid well in Construction are the architects, the contractor, and the foreman(s) who oversee the particular tasks and their particular guys. I was referring to the jobs illegal immigrants took, which are the blue collar tasks. No offense, but my last question talked about low wages and physical hardship as a turn off for white workers in the blue collar realm, not the white collar realm.
I have been around the construction industry for 40 years. I have worked on the ground and in the office. I have sold real estate and designed houses. I can tell you that by and large, nobody but the risk taker get paid the big bucks regardless of the position. The architect seems like he gets paid well compared to the framer, but the architect pays a lot more for his tools and office space. The framer seems underpaid next to the general contractor, until you write the checks for insurance, taxes and materials that the contractor foots the bill for.

Everyone has a good and a bad side to their part of the trade. Working conditions for stress and time pressures, money concerns, legal liabilities. Nothing is easy.

The wages earned by the lowly construction worker in most areas is still very high compared to the migrant worker. Falling off a roof is still more hazardous than tripping over a lettuce crate.

I have worked side by side with illegals in the construction business and they made the same wage as I did and did the same work. On most of those occasions the illegal was hired because we needed extra help for a short period of time and could not find anyone legal that was available and willing to do "day labor". There are many construction crews comprised of illegals because it is hard to find qualified workers who do not expect to become bosses after a while. The migrants and illegals are trying to support their families and have little hope of promotion in their minds, so they are willing to work for 10 years as a worker-bee. Most Americans wonder why they haven't been promoted to lead or supervisor after 8 months.

I cast a wide net here and you will find many, many exceptions. Do not be disheartened, you will also find many more that fit that description exactly.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-05-2007, 05:48 PM
 
398 posts, read 1,265,158 times
Reputation: 239
A couple of points that must be kept in mind to continue the debate.

- Illegal immigration IS A CRIME. Period. Just like stealing a car, breaking into a private house is against the law, crossing our borders is also against the law. That makes automatically all these millions, CRIMINALS. And as criminals, they deserve to be severily punished.

- The USA, is not the welfare of the world. IF people is starving around the world, or don't have enough intelligence and education to develop technology and their countries, is not America's fault. And that doesn't give them any right to come here or ask us for money.

- Every social group, ethnic group or nation accross the globe, has the system it deserves. Their system is determined by the quality of people and their way of thinking. Mediocre culture, leads to mediocre countries. Smart and united people, leads to civilized countries. Example, Japan. A small Island, without any type of natural resources, they united and disciplined, with intelligence, decided to import all the raw materials and create EVERYTHING.

Just because America is bigger, is not a reason to justify mediocrisy and then sneak into here to claim rights and benefits. That parasite attitude is exactly what we, Americans, don't like, and we refuse to tolerate.

America love it, or leave it.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:01 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnrex62 View Post
I have been around the construction industry for 40 years. I have worked on the ground and in the office. I have sold real estate and designed houses. I can tell you that by and large, nobody but the risk taker get paid the big bucks regardless of the position. The architect seems like he gets paid well compared to the framer, but the architect pays a lot more for his tools and office space. The framer seems underpaid next to the general contractor, until you write the checks for insurance, taxes and materials that the contractor foots the bill for.

Everyone has a good and a bad side to their part of the trade. Working conditions for stress and time pressures, money concerns, legal liabilities. Nothing is easy.

The wages earned by the lowly construction worker in most areas is still very high compared to the migrant worker. Falling off a roof is still more hazardous than tripping over a lettuce crate.

I have worked side by side with illegals in the construction business and they made the same wage as I did and did the same work. On most of those occasions the illegal was hired because we needed extra help for a short period of time and could not find anyone legal that was available and willing to do "day labor". There are many construction crews comprised of illegals because it is hard to find qualified workers who do not expect to become bosses after a while. The migrants and illegals are trying to support their families and have little hope of promotion in their minds, so they are willing to work for 10 years as a worker-bee. Most Americans wonder why they haven't been promoted to lead or supervisor after 8 months.

I cast a wide net here and you will find many, many exceptions. Do not be disheartened, you will also find many more that fit that description exactly.


Yea you are casting a wide net. We have owned our own company and have NEVER had a problem hiring citizens to work, none ever ask for promotions or even raises, they were happy to work. They to are supporting their family and have worked 12-14 hours to get the houses done. we got pushed out of business because of illegals being hired cheaply by others we couldnt compete. My husband swung a hammer for 20 years. While we did own the business he was out their with the rest of them and we made as much as they did at times. He Still is swing away. He is now a manager for a company, the illegals he has to put up with, spit at him, yell at him and ignore his instructions, call him names and then he has to come in to fix their mistakes after his job is suppose to be over for the day. We have know many companies in the same position. Dont assume we all are lazy, I know many many that will work harder than any illegal, and do it right!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:08 AM
 
451 posts, read 1,016,013 times
Reputation: 342
Quote:
I have worked side by side with illegals in the construction business and they made the same wage as I did and did the same work.
This comment is just Bullsh, Lets just say that I was out tending the cattle today and I happened to step in exactly what your comment is.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2007, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by chloedog View Post
This comment is just Bullsh, Lets just say that I was out tending the cattle today and I happened to step in exactly what your comment is.
Yep with you on that one!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-07-2007, 05:45 PM
 
Location: in my home
96 posts, read 364,884 times
Reputation: 96
"I believe there is a motive that we are not yet aware of by the government to allow this to happen."

Yes, the motive stems from the fact that our government is in the control of businesses. Businesses want CHEAP labor. The business lobby is a huge one. This lobby pays our lawmakers to look the other way. Businesses now have more rights than individuals. Illegals are allowed because business likes it that they are cheap and that many will work under the table so the company doesn't have to pay matching taxes. That is the real reason illegals are here, not because Americans won't work hard or won't work for low wages. These illegals are not only taking low paying jobs, construction jobs that paid Americans well are now being given to the cheaper illegals to save the greedy companies more money.

Ilegals are not like the immigrants of the past. Old immigrants came here and wanted to assimilate. The current illegals don't want to become American. They want what we have but don't want to do what we did to get it. They now send their money home and have no plans to stay. They send their money home and drain our resources to the max. They want us to accomodate them and change for them. The thing they are not realizing is that the very rich life they see Americans having are a result of the American work ethic. If they change us to be like them, that same rich American way of life they so covet will disappear and they will be left with just more of their same life they sought to leave behind. Transforming America to the third-world country that these illegals left and seem to want to return to will end the richness they so crave.

It is already happening in many areas. Tucson is now so third-world that unless you stay at the very expensive two hotels that are top of the line, you risk staying at the now substandard, midrange hotel chains that in other cities would be good but in Tucson are really bad. The standard of upkeep and cleanliness is so below the usual American standard there as to be awful. You really feel like Tucson is becoming third-world Mexico. It is a sign of things to come.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top