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Old 09-16-2008, 09:57 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by amc760 View Post
Nevermind that the only way we got to where were at is because of people challenging and amending those laws.
....and by obeying them until such time as they ARE changed.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:12 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,176,507 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
....and by obeying them until such time as they ARE changed.
And thank YOU for reading my mind...
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:17 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,303,557 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
....and by obeying them until such time as they ARE changed.
"I do not deny that I am breaking the law " ,Gandhi said in the courtroom. "It is my duty to India and to Great Britain not to co-operate with unfair laws, .

An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is an orderliness in the universe, there is an unalterable law governing everything and every being that exists or lives. It is no blind law; for no blind law can govern the conduct of living beings.
Mohandas Gandhi

What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.
Mohandas Gandhi

Justice that love gives is a surrender, justice that law gives is a punishment.
Mohandas Gandhi

If co-operation is a duty, I hold that non-co-operation also under certain conditions is equally a duty.
Mohandas Gandhi

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.
Mohandas Gandhi

You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Mohandas Gandhi
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,176,507 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
"I do not deny that I am breaking the law " ,Gandhi said in the courtroom. "It is my duty to India and to Great Britain not to co-operate with unfair laws, .

An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is an orderliness in the universe, there is an unalterable law governing everything and every being that exists or lives. It is no blind law; for no blind law can govern the conduct of living beings.
Mohandas Gandhi

What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.
Mohandas Gandhi

Justice that love gives is a surrender, justice that law gives is a punishment.
Mohandas Gandhi

If co-operation is a duty, I hold that non-co-operation also under certain conditions is equally a duty.
Mohandas Gandhi

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.
Mohandas Gandhi

You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Mohandas Gandhi
I take it that you consider Mr. Gandhi to be your guru??

In this country the citizens CREATE the law, and the citizens are the ones responsible for CHANGING it. That's what 'self-governance' is all about. I don't believe Mr. Gandhi was being civilly disobedient to a society that CREATED it's own laws, rather, he was fighting for the Indian people to have that SAME right.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:43 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,303,557 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
I take it that you consider Mr. Gandhi to be your guru??

In this country the citizens CREATE the law, and the citizens are the ones responsible for CHANGING it. That's what 'self-governance' is all about. I don't believe Mr. Gandhi was being civilly disobedient to a society that CREATED it's own laws, rather, he was fighting for the Indian people to have that SAME right.
You have a point but, if people create the law, then it's up to people talk about it in a civil way and give their opinions I guess that's what we all do here
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:45 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
"I do not deny that I am breaking the law " ,Gandhi said in the courtroom. "It is my duty to India and to Great Britain not to co-operate with unfair laws, .

An unjust law is itself a species of violence. Arrest for its breach is more so.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is a higher court than courts of justice and that is the court of conscience. It supercedes all other courts.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is an orderliness in the universe, there is an unalterable law governing everything and every being that exists or lives. It is no blind law; for no blind law can govern the conduct of living beings.
Mohandas Gandhi

What do I think of Western civilization? I think it would be a very good idea.
Mohandas Gandhi

Justice that love gives is a surrender, justice that law gives is a punishment.
Mohandas Gandhi

If co-operation is a duty, I hold that non-co-operation also under certain conditions is equally a duty.
Mohandas Gandhi

Constant development is the law of life, and a man who always tries to maintain his dogmas in order to appear consistent drives himself into a false position.
Mohandas Gandhi

There is nothing that wastes the body like worry, and one who has any faith in God should be ashamed to worry about anything whatsoever.
Mohandas Gandhi

You must not lose faith in humanity. Humanity is an ocean; if a few drops of the ocean are dirty, the ocean does not become dirty.
Mohandas Gandhi

Here's some OTHER folks who questioned the need to obey laws they felt were irrelevant....

"I am not a crook".....Richard M. Nixon

"I rob banks for a living. What do you do?".....John Dillinger

"If you think your boss is stupid, remember: You wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter".....John Gotti

"I viewed this action as an acceptable option"....Timothy McVeigh

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun, than you can get with just a kind word"....Willie Sutton

"The law is a convenience for some people, and an inconvenience for others"....Paul Castellano

"I am like any other man--all I do is supply a demand".....Al Capone
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:51 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,303,557 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Here's some OTHER folks who questioned the need to obey laws they felt were irrelevant....

"I am not a crook".....Richard M. Nixon

"I rob banks for a living. What do you do?".....John Dillinger

"If you think your boss is stupid, remember: You wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter".....John Gotti

"I viewed this action as an acceptable option"....Timothy McVeigh

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun, than you can get with just a kind word"....Willie Sutton

"The law is a convenience for some people, and an inconvenience for others"....Paul Castellano

"I am like any other man--all I do is supply a demand".....Al Capone
it is true, but those guys actually made the world worse and not better with their actions, most people here complain a lot about ilegal immigration, and the huge drain on resources it has, or how bad are the people from foreign cultures even if they are happily living in their countries minding their own business, but how are they affected by all this, people who has really suffered physical, economical or moral damage due to illegal immigrants, seem to be more down to earth and reasonable than those who just waste their lifes away crying in a forum instead of pursuing hapiness.
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:56 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,736,258 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Here's some OTHER folks who questioned the need to obey laws they felt were irrelevant....

"I am not a crook".....Richard M. Nixon

"I rob banks for a living. What do you do?".....John Dillinger

"If you think your boss is stupid, remember: You wouldn't have a job if he was any smarter".....John Gotti

"I viewed this action as an acceptable option"....Timothy McVeigh

"You can get more with a kind word and a gun, than you can get with just a kind word"....Willie Sutton

"The law is a convenience for some people, and an inconvenience for others"....Paul Castellano

"I am like any other man--all I do is supply a demand".....Al Capone
You forgot one..." I never had sex with that woman", former President Clinton
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Old 09-16-2008, 10:57 PM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,176,507 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
it is true, but those guys actually made the world worse and not better with their actions, most people here complain a lot about ilegal immigration, and the huge drain on resources it has, or how bad are the people from foreign cultures even if they are happily living in their countries minding their own business, but how are they affected by all this, people who has really suffered physical, economical or moral damage due to illegal immigrants, seem to be more down to earth and reasonable than those who just waste their lifes away crying in a forum instead of pursuing hapiness.
I complain a lot about what illegal immigration has done to lessen my and my family's quality of life. The lost work and wages, the higher taxes, the failing schools... These things have all affected me on a PERSONAL level, and I don't mind saying it REALLY pisses me off.
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Old 09-16-2008, 11:00 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
it is true, but those guys actually made the world worse and not better with their actions, most people here complain a lot about ilegal immigration, and the huge drain on resources it has, or how bad are the people from foreign cultures even if they are happily living in their countries minding their own business, but how are they affected by all this, people who has really suffered physical, economical or moral damage due to illegal immigrants, seem to be more down to earth and reasonable than those who just waste their lifes away crying in a forum instead of pursuing hapiness.

My point is ONLY that the US has a situation rare in the world, of being 'self-governing'...that this is what allows our tremendous diversity to take place, WITHOUT harsh laaws to "make" us behave, and that illegal immigration is a massive 'slap in the face' of this benign system..is, in many ways, "taking our 'niceness' and shoving it in our faces', and that if it continues, it will undoubtedly lead to less SELF-government, and more "government from ABOVE", such as exists in most societies. In THIS type of society, if you don't respect the system, you invite ANOTHER 'system' in, one that you WILL respect, whether you 'like' it or not.

Illegal immigration sends a bad message to society..it doesn't REALLY satisfy the illegals...and it encourages more and more of the same in future years. It invites "harsh measures" to control it, and I don't think anyone wants that in our society.
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