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Old 09-21-2008, 10:20 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,903,628 times
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Oregon voters get to decide how to reach and teach children with limited English this fall as the hot-button immigration issue makes it to a statewide ballot.

Initiative promoter Bill Sizemore proposes scrapping bilingual education and English as a Second Language classes – now taught to one in 10 Portland Public Schools students. His Measure 58 would usher newcomers into English immersion classes for one to two years, then put them in regular classrooms alongside other students.

Measure 58 would push 3,500 Portland students out of ESL and bilingual programs and cost the school district $10.6 million a year in special state funding, said district spokesman Matt Shelby.

The campaign also should spark a heated debate about illegal immigration, boosting voter turnout by social conservatives in what is expected to be a close presidential election.

“Oregon schools have no obligation to people who immigrate into this country to perpetuate their culture,” said Jim Ludwick, president of Oregonians for Immigration Reform, who hopes to play a lead role in the campaign.

Sizemore said ESL and bilingual education are “grossly failing kids,” and that English immersion is the best way to help immigrants succeed.

Initiative seeks to ban bilingual classes

Long, but great read!
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Old 09-21-2008, 11:20 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,736,258 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Oregon voters get to decide how to reach and teach children with limited English this fall as the hot-button immigration issue makes it to a statewide ballot.

Initiative promoter Bill Sizemore proposes scrapping bilingual education and English as a Second Language classes – now taught to one in 10 Portland Public Schools students. His Measure 58 would usher newcomers into English immersion classes for one to two years, then put them in regular classrooms alongside other students.

Measure 58 would push 3,500 Portland students out of ESL and bilingual programs and cost the school district $10.6 million a year in special state funding, said district spokesman Matt Shelby.

The campaign also should spark a heated debate about illegal immigration, boosting voter turnout by social conservatives in what is expected to be a close presidential election.

“Oregon schools have no obligation to people who immigrate into this country to perpetuate their culture,” said Jim Ludwick, president of Oregonians for Immigration Reform, who hopes to play a lead role in the campaign.

Sizemore said ESL and bilingual education are “grossly failing kids,” and that English immersion is the best way to help immigrants succeed.

Initiative seeks to ban bilingual classes

Long, but great read!
That should prove interesting. Portland itself is a very liberal city.
They were the first to allow same sex marriages
They have Dignity village for all the homeless, plain every day bums etc. If you think that looks pretty, your wrong. They are all some kind of tents or lean too's. I would not be surprised if Portland became a sanctuary city. In Hillboro, out side of Portland, ALL of the police officers had to learn Spanish.
The ones that would be against it, would be like Eastern Oregon or Central Oregon are just the opposite, you could call them rednecks.
So, it will be interesting.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:13 PM
 
2,256 posts, read 2,965,335 times
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Bilingual education is a tricky issue. While its a nice comfort thing for kids who speak little or no English, my experience as someone who is terrible at learning languages has been that complete immersion in a language is the best way to learn it. For me, Spanish classes never really were of use to me in learning Spanish - it is only when I was forced to use it and only it that I really started to understand it better.

Yes, it's uncomfortable and there are growing pains, but in the end it does a lot more service to these children than bilingual classes, which in many instances use English too passively to ensure sufficient English comprehension. And the result is a child that will have a good command of the English language, but still retain their knowledge of Spanish, which puts them at an advantage over kids who can only speak English.
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:28 PM
 
Location: Maryland
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How on earth did the children of immigrants who entered this country through Ellis Island, and were not accommodated with ESL classes, ever learn to speak English?
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:31 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,694,322 times
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Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How on earth did the children of immigrants who entered this country through Ellis Island, and were not accommodated with ESL classes, ever learn to speak English?
I'm wondering the same thing. My father and his siblings should have been brought up speaking Norwegian rather than the English my grandparents insisted that they learn. My siblings and I should have shunned English in favor of Norwegian and Apache.

Where did my parents (and grandparents for that matter) go wrong?
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Old 09-22-2008, 12:31 PM
 
Location: um....guess
10,479 posts, read 13,515,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
That should prove interesting. Portland itself is a very liberal city.
They were the first to allow same sex marriages
They have Dignity village for all the homeless, plain every day bums etc. If you think that looks pretty, your wrong. They are all some kind of tents or lean too's. I would not be surprised if Portland became a sanctuary city. In Hillboro, out side of Portland, ALL of the police officers had to learn Spanish.
The ones that would be against it, would be like Eastern Oregon or Central Oregon are just the opposite, you could call them rednecks.
So, it will be interesting.
A technicality, however Portland does not allow gay marriage. They do allow the same benefits for gay couples as regular marriage though.
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Old 09-23-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,349,083 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
How on earth did the children of immigrants who entered this country through Ellis Island, and were not accommodated with ESL classes, ever learn to speak English?
Why don't you read up on the history and report back? I know the answer and it will surprise you. Ever hear of Bilingual schools in German...they existed... Things are not as black and white as you think they are...


History of Bilingual Education



Quote:



In 1839, Ohio became the first state to adopt a bilingual education law, authorizing German-English instruction at parents' request. Louisiana enacted an identical provision for French and English in 1847, and the New Mexico Territory did so for Spanish and English in 1850. By the end of the 19th century, about a dozen states had passed similar laws. Elsewhere, many localities provided bilingual instruction without state sanction, in languages as diverse as Norwegian, Italian, Polish, Czech, and Cherokee.
more links


History of Bilingual Education



Speaking of Learning: Bilingual Education
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Old 09-23-2008, 10:54 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,041,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Why don't you read up on the history and report back? I know the answer and it will surprise you. Ever hear of Bilingual schools in German...they existed... Things are not as black and white as you think they are...


History of Bilingual Education





more links


History of Bilingual Education



Speaking of Learning: Bilingual Education

My grandfather emigrated from Prague at the turn of the last century (around 1901). There was no bilingual education. In fact, here is how he learned English --- His father told him and his four sisters that they had a choice. Learn English by speaking only English at home and at school or get a beating. They learned English and were fluent, as was my great grandfather in short order. I wonder how many newer immigrants have a similiar (though hopefully less painful) commitment to learning english as my great grandfather had?
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Why don't you read up on the history and report back? I know the answer and it will surprise you. Ever hear of Bilingual schools in German...they existed... Things are not as black and white as you think they are...


History of Bilingual Education



more links


History of Bilingual Education



Speaking of Learning: Bilingual Education
Sorry to disappoint you, but I am well aware of your "revelations." However, the level of accommodations afforded the Spanish-speaking "immigrants" is unprecedented.

We have NEVER had to press 1 for English and 2 for German, French, Italian, etc. We have NEVER had signage in other languages in stores, nor messages over the PA systems spoken in other languages. We have also NEVER had widespread denial of jobs, or Americans losing jobs because they could not speak the language of foreign invaders.

Show me comparable accommodations for ANY other language, and I will stand corrected.
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Old 09-23-2008, 11:09 AM
 
Location: Oregon
1,169 posts, read 3,305,431 times
Reputation: 572
You know I never see any questions or comments on those type of iniatives/ballots asking about what the effect is on all the English speaking American kids. It's always about the ESL kids. Having to find bilingual teachers I would think would be hard to do. Does it slow down the rest of the class having to teach in two languages? I would think it would. My old company did our company meetings both in English and Spanish, and it took so long. I bet they would all be learning faster if only taught in English. Why doesn't anyone ever take into account the effects on all the other kids education?
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