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Old 09-26-2008, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
And unless you've ever lived in Mexico, you have no idea why people come illegally.

I'd rather people "aid and abet" by providing illegals with water than allowing people- especially children- to die. Gosh darn, I guess I'm just a bleeding heart liberal.
No one has said allow anyone to die. Why do you pro illegals keep trying to twist this into something its not? Its not our fault the illegals attempt to cross this desert unprepared. Mac said it best. Set up ICE water stations and apprehend the illegals before:
1. They perish from exposure
2. Blend in and avoid apprehension
Bottom line anyone who would subject their child to such a journey is unfit to be a parent.
Any one who would attempt such a journey with no training and no supplies deserves the Darwin award.
I have been trained and I am confident I could survive. This said I would never force such hardship upon my child. These people continue to prove their utter disregard for others with their actions.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:05 PM
 
Location: US
3,074 posts, read 3,337,998 times
Reputation: 1621
Outstanding idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
It IS a little harsh, I agree....somthing like disconnecting the brakes on bicycles in an attempt to teach bike thieves a lesson (by letting them crash). An understandable wish, of course....but unneccesarily cruel for 'civilized people'.

This whole thread is a real 'wobbler' for me. I've already made my point about having great sympathy for thirsty people....yet, "permanent, unmanned" watering stations DOES seem to go a long way toward aiding lawbreakers. As I've said, how about "ICE water stations"? (get it ?)...You get your water, but in doing so, you trip an alarm, and you are picked up BEFORE getting to civilization and 'blending in', and you're returned home. I'm sure if we could 'find' thirsty people, ICE could find them too....if that's truly our aim.
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Old 09-26-2008, 06:52 PM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,749 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishing View Post
What??? How many times can you spin this against the people of the USA? Have you read the previos posts at all? No decent human being would ever allow another to die of thirst, starvation, etc regardless of the victims nationality or legal/illegal status. Nor have I ever noticed people celebrating when another illegal is found dead attemptig to cross into the USA. Even the "evil" anti illegals such as myself can't see how you continue to act as if anyone against allowing illegals to have free reign over our nation can be classified as some kind of subhuman monter that only wishes to see the total demise of all humans not residing in the USA through any means possible. Until you can find a majority of people that truely think this way on any of these forums, please quit insulting the morals and intelligence of many of us that post on this ste.
I'm so surprised that anyone that has without a fraction of even
knowing the topic or understanding the topic, would take it upon themselves to act like they know of which they are posting. There is NOT ONE sentence that you have correct. Try searching it out on the internet or read maybe
The Devils Highway..
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Old 09-26-2008, 07:47 PM
 
Location: North Carolina
3,208 posts, read 2,868,682 times
Reputation: 2919
Sassy, could you please explain what this statement means! I am really confused! It kind of rambles on with no real discernible meaning. Please elaborate so we can join your conversation.
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Old 09-26-2008, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,309 posts, read 25,679,041 times
Reputation: 10566
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
And unless you've ever lived in Mexico, you have no idea why people come illegally.
Just for clarification, charolastra . . . in what areas of Mexico have you lived?

Very possibly, if the Illegals would have shown even the most basic respect for the land they are invading, this scenario would not exist. Considering they blatantly disrespect our Immigration Laws, attack our Border Patrol Officers and then have the audacity to further disrespect us, as well as the local wildlife, by trashing our land as they continue into this country, the absense of sympathy is warranted.
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Old 09-26-2008, 10:31 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,892,472 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
Just for clarification, charolastra . . . in what areas of Mexico have you lived?

Very possibly, if the Illegals would have shown even the most basic respect for the land they are invading, this scenario would not exist. Considering they blatantly disrespect our Immigration Laws, attack our Border Patrol Officers and then have the audacity to further disrespect us, as well as the local wildlife, by trashing our land as they continue into this country, the absense of sympathy is warranted.
I would rep you if I could . This is a powerful post into reality........
Direct to the point and absolutely accurate. Bravo Zulu...
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Old 09-27-2008, 09:35 AM
 
Location: Camberville
11,399 posts, read 16,009,980 times
Reputation: 18055
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
Just for clarification, charolastra . . . in what areas of Mexico have you lived?

Very possibly, if the Illegals would have shown even the most basic respect for the land they are invading, this scenario would not exist. Considering they blatantly disrespect our Immigration Laws, attack our Border Patrol Officers and then have the audacity to further disrespect us, as well as the local wildlife, by trashing our land as they continue into this country, the absense of sympathy is warranted.
I live in Oaxaca- the 2nd poorest state with (in my own opinion) the most corrupt government. My home for the next few months is in Oaxaca City but I've also spent some time living with a family in an indigenous village and will spend a week each over the next few weeks in Mexico City, Chiapas (the poorest state), and the Isthmus (the poorest part of the poorest state). While I'm here to research water issues, it's hard to not talk to people about immigration since immigration from the country to the cities, then from the cities to Mexico City have devastated the country.

The people here are doing everything they can to try to make their situation better. In 2006, there was a massive sit in by the teachers of public schools downtown, demanding better situations for themselves and their students. Because of the school system here, there is absolutely no upward mobility. The poor and indigenous students go to public school- often with teachers who don't speak their own language- and only stay in school until around 8th grade because then the resources for public schools run out.

2006 backfired in a massive way because it turned into a social movement. The governor refused to move for anything that the teachers demanded and the city shut down for about 4 months. Now it's even worse than before because all the foreign media made it out to seem like the city is death trap (while its really one of the safest in Mexico) so tourism has plummeted and it's become a mecca for the far left wing of North America and Europe.

If I was in the situation of many of the people I have met so far- indigenous, no way out of the cycle of poverty, but bright- I know I'd do anything to get a better life. When your town goes from 1000 people to 200 in a matter of 10 years due to immigration into the cities and to the US, what are you supposed to do? I don't condone it, but I understand why it happens. Anyone who loved their family would do the same. Especially poignant was meeting a family with 3 young children who all looked under 5 to me. I asked them how old they were and they were 7, 8, and 10. Malnutrition

Southern Mexico is a whole different world from Northern Mexico from everything I've heard. For one- most people here who go to the US want to come back. They pay into the complicated indigenous system of governance to "hold their place" for when they return.

It just puzzles me that on one hand, the US government condemns illegal immigration when on the other, the perpetuate many of the reasons. Aside from the Mexican government, American corn dumps into the country are KILLING the indigenous population who farms. The markets all sell American corn now- not the more expensive criollo corn produced by small farms in the country side. It's a serious, serious problem that, in my opinion, could curb a significant amount of the Southern migration so people could feed their kids and make some money.

If you don't understand the problem, you have no way of fighting it. Sure, fight illegal immigration. But you're doing nothing if you're not also fighting the root causes of it. Demand a stop to the corn lobby. Demand the government to find meaningful ways of aid to Mexico (money into public schools for instance). Even if you built a 200 foot wall around the US, it's not going to stop people when they see it as a way to feed their family. Better things in Mexico for the marginalized population and maybe you won't find them coming to the US to look for a better form of marginalization.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:32 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,749 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by catfishing View Post
What??? How many times can you spin this against the people of the USA? Have you read the previos posts at all? No decent human being would ever allow another to die of thirst, starvation, etc regardless of the victims nationality or legal/illegal status. Nor have I ever noticed people celebrating when another illegal is found dead attemptig to cross into the USA. Even the "evil" anti illegals such as myself can't see how you continue to act as if anyone against allowing illegals to have free reign over our nation can be classified as some kind of subhuman monter that only wishes to see the total demise of all humans not residing in the USA through any means possible. Until you can find a majority of people that truely think this way on any of these forums, please quit insulting the morals and intelligence of many of us that post on this ste.
I'm sorry but I don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about. These Illegals are not stopping at a roadside rest to get a glass of water. There are over a hundred large water drums for the illegals, and they have been left empty, shot full of holes, poison written in Spanish so they won't drink it.
As far as going through the desert it is stinking hot. The bandits are running freely and you will find womens purses with all of her pictures of her family dumped out. Their clothes have been tossed all over because they are forced by the bandits to do that so they do not try to chase them.
It is quite ugly in a border town. You might read up on it sometime, and learn something.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:37 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,692,325 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
I'm sorry but I don't think you have a clue of what you are talking about. These Illegals are not stopping at a roadside rest to get a glass of water. There are over a hundred large water drums for the illegals, and they have been left empty, shot full of holes, poison written in Spanish so they won't drink it.
As far as going through the desert it is stinking hot. The bandits are running freely and you will find womens purses with all of her pictures of her family dumped out. Their clothes have been tossed all over because they are forced by the bandits to do that so they do not try to chase them.
It is quite ugly in a border town. You might read up on it sometime, and learn something.
Oh waaaaaa.

Cry me a bloody river.

I suggest that they stay home then. Ever hear the old adage "If you can't stand the heat, stay out of the kitchen?" I think it applies quite nicely.

I would never deny water to a thirsty human being, but at the same time, if they weren't attempting a illegal action, they wouldn't be in the situation to begin with.

If a thief is shot during the commission of a crime, are you going to cry for him as well? If he weren't in the process of illegal behavior, he would have never been shot. Same principle applies.
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Old 09-27-2008, 11:39 AM
 
1,818 posts, read 2,735,749 times
Reputation: 223
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
No one has said allow anyone to die. Why do you pro illegals keep trying to twist this into something its not? Its not our fault the illegals attempt to cross this desert unprepared. Mac said it best. Set up ICE water stations and apprehend the illegals before:
1. They perish from exposure
2. Blend in and avoid apprehension
Bottom line anyone who would subject their child to such a journey is unfit to be a parent.
Any one who would attempt such a journey with no training and no supplies deserves the Darwin award.
I have been trained and I am confident I could survive. This said I would never force such hardship upon my child. These people continue to prove their utter disregard for others with their actions.
If your child died in the desert, how long do you think you could carry him? I guess you do not realize, you would either try and find your way home or keep going and not knowing if the direction is right or not.
If you think you can do this, as a learning class...go out in the desert when it is in the triple desert and see how many miles you can take your child....and this is without water, how long do you think you can last without water.
So I guess your comeback would be, I WOULD NEVER TRAVEL WITH MY CHILD. Well, I guess you would be giving them away, you going to take the risk again to Mexico??

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