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Old 09-27-2008, 03:45 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,678,111 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I live in Oaxaca- the 2nd poorest state with (in my own opinion) the most corrupt government. My home for the next few months is in Oaxaca City but I've also spent some time living with a family in an indigenous village and will spend a week each over the next few weeks in Mexico City, Chiapas (the poorest state), and the Isthmus (the poorest part of the poorest state). While I'm here to research water issues, it's hard to not talk to people about immigration since immigration from the country to the cities, then from the cities to Mexico City have devastated the country.

The people here are doing everything they can to try to make their situation better. In 2006, there was a massive sit in by the teachers of public schools downtown, demanding better situations for themselves and their students. Because of the school system here, there is absolutely no upward mobility. The poor and indigenous students go to public school- often with teachers who don't speak their own language- and only stay in school until around 8th grade because then the resources for public schools run out.

2006 backfired in a massive way because it turned into a social movement. The governor refused to move for anything that the teachers demanded and the city shut down for about 4 months. Now it's even worse than before because all the foreign media made it out to seem like the city is death trap (while its really one of the safest in Mexico) so tourism has plummeted and it's become a mecca for the far left wing of North America and Europe.

If I was in the situation of many of the people I have met so far- indigenous, no way out of the cycle of poverty, but bright- I know I'd do anything to get a better life. When your town goes from 1000 people to 200 in a matter of 10 years due to immigration into the cities and to the US, what are you supposed to do? I don't condone it, but I understand why it happens. Anyone who loved their family would do the same. Especially poignant was meeting a family with 3 young children who all looked under 5 to me. I asked them how old they were and they were 7, 8, and 10. Malnutrition

Southern Mexico is a whole different world from Northern Mexico from everything I've heard. For one- most people here who go to the US want to come back. They pay into the complicated indigenous system of governance to "hold their place" for when they return.

It just puzzles me that on one hand, the US government condemns illegal immigration when on the other, the perpetuate many of the reasons. Aside from the Mexican government, American corn dumps into the country are KILLING the indigenous population who farms. The markets all sell American corn now- not the more expensive criollo corn produced by small farms in the country side. It's a serious, serious problem that, in my opinion, could curb a significant amount of the Southern migration so people could feed their kids and make some money.

If you don't understand the problem, you have no way of fighting it. Sure, fight illegal immigration. But you're doing nothing if you're not also fighting the root causes of it. Demand a stop to the corn lobby. Demand the government to find meaningful ways of aid to Mexico (money into public schools for instance). Even if you built a 200 foot wall around the US, it's not going to stop people when they see it as a way to feed their family. Better things in Mexico for the marginalized population and maybe you won't find them coming to the US to look for a better form of marginalization.
Trust me: those sections of the USA/Mexico border that have been fortified have cut down the number of illegal crossings on the order of 90%.

As for us paying to subsidize the Mexican schools............I think not.

The per capita of Mexico is almost $13K a year------------Mexico is not a poor nation. Let the (mostly) White elite cough up the $$$.
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Old 09-27-2008, 03:58 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,700,585 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Reads2MUCH View Post
Sassy, could you please explain what this statement means! I am really confused! It kind of rambles on with no real discernible meaning. Please elaborate so we can join your conversation.
Yeah, good luck with that....
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:06 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,310 posts, read 25,735,799 times
Reputation: 10574
Quote:
Originally Posted by charolastra00 View Post
I live in Oaxaca- the 2nd poorest state with (in my own opinion) the most corrupt government. My home for the next few months is in Oaxaca City but I've also spent some time living with a family in an indigenous village and will spend a week each over the next few weeks in Mexico City, Chiapas (the poorest state), and the Isthmus (the poorest part of the poorest state). While I'm here to research water issues, it's hard to not talk to people about immigration since immigration from the country to the cities, then from the cities to Mexico City have devastated the country.
Granted, charolastra, there are some very poor, as well as some very wealthy, areas in Mexico. Needless to say, that scenario exists in most countries of the world.

However, neither situation justifies blatantly violating the Immigration Laws of The United States.

Also, aside from major corruption and considering the abundance of natural resources, there is absolutely no reason Mexico should be a Third World Nation. It is time for Mexicans to demand better from their government instead of invading this country and demanding more and more when they literally, as common criminals, deserve nothing.

Rather than "research water issues" . . . have you considered researching the corruption issues?
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:16 PM
 
Location: US
3,082 posts, read 3,345,286 times
Reputation: 1629
Mexico will not start to even consider taking care of it's poor citizens until we stop taking care of it's poor citizens. Mexico's rulers and elite are laughing at us. The win-win situation for Mexico is that they get rid of their poor and we are talking about sending money to Mexico to bolster it's economy. We really are stupid.
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Old 09-27-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: US
3,082 posts, read 3,345,286 times
Reputation: 1629
Tried to rep you for these comments, but couldn't. Has someone given this man a rep?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Trust me: those sections of the USA/Mexico border that have been fortified have cut down the number of illegal crossings on the order of 90%.

As for us paying to subsidize the Mexican schools............I think not.

The per capita of Mexico is almost $13K a year------------Mexico is not a poor nation. Let the (mostly) White elite cough up the $$$.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:36 PM
 
1,304 posts, read 2,926,091 times
Reputation: 393
Quote:
Originally Posted by sassyone View Post
That Native American has been on TV many times. The only thing he did was provide water for the immigrants. He stated that they would be tampered with, but he kept doing what he thought was right. He may not have agreed with them coming here, but he did not want them to die crossing. I and many others had nothing but respect for him.
You once again... left out the important KEY word.. "ILLEGAL" immigrants.
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Old 09-27-2008, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,314,855 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Bound View Post
You once again... left out the important KEY word.. "ILLEGAL" immigrants.
She always seems to forget that word, illegal!!!
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma
608 posts, read 792,643 times
Reputation: 409
Like usual, the spin contines! Somehow this discusion based upon how no poster in this forum would ever want to see another human suffer has now been turned into a rant regarding a sellect fews biased vews regarding why we in the anti illegal crowd need to "be more mature,"" learn about why the illegals are here,"and of course "quit having closed minded points of view." Regardless of the reasons why or why not the illegals are here in the US, one thing is clear...They have no right by law to be here and if they feel that there are serious issues in their homelands, they need to deal with it in the own country.
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Old 09-27-2008, 08:40 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,310 posts, read 25,735,799 times
Reputation: 10574
Quote:
Originally Posted by Arizona Bound View Post
You once again... left out the important KEY word.. "ILLEGAL" immigrants.
Excellent point, Arizona Bound

Some individuals cannot comprehend the meaning of AIDING AND ABETTING COMMON CRIMINALS!
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Old 09-28-2008, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Camberville
11,407 posts, read 16,049,959 times
Reputation: 18119
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bummer View Post
Excellent point, Arizona Bound

Some individuals cannot comprehend the meaning of AIDING AND ABETTING COMMON CRIMINALS!

I guess I'm just a Christ-like Jew, then.
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