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There are some who only choose to see the bad in a situation, Sunil's perverted Dad is one of them... Too many people take for granted what we have here... and the sacrifices that were made...
But how could a segregated military be "patriotic" when it didn't even live up to this country's own ideals?
It's a strange phenomenon, isn't it? Notwithstanding segregation and other injustices, black soldiers fought and died for this country with honor and valor. As a matter of fact, I have not encountered one who was not proud of his service to OUR country. I am willing to do the same.
I think you'll find that in many families, these "old time" immigrants played DOWN their ethnicity...It's their present-day Great grandchildren who are pushing the 'ancestral' stuff.
This is a subject I've done a bit of research on. You have to remember that during these "old times" (pre-World War II America) assimilation was not an option, but a survival tactic.
The United States of the 19th century was a drastically different place than today. The government and its citizens openly discriminated against nearly every group beside those of Anglo-Saxon heritage. Racial science was in vogue, which held those of Anglo-Saxon descent at the "pinnacle" of human development, and described those of mixed or African heritage as mongrel-like beings doomed to extinction (these are indirect quotes of U.S. politicians no less!). This line of thought is the driving force behind the development of Manifest Destiny, which was a openly racialized theory which proposed that white Americans were destined to dominate and extinguish "lesser races" who were inherently weaker.
Just some food for thought to think about what 'assimilation' meant 150+ years ago. The U.S. we live in today is a much more embracing and open culture, so naturally immigrants feel less pressure to adapt to the dominant culture so forcefully.
This is a subject I've done a bit of research on. You have to remember that during these "old times" (pre-World War II America) assimilation was not an option, but a survival tactic.
The United States of the 19th century was a drastically different place than today. The government and its citizens openly discriminated against nearly every group beside those of Anglo-Saxon heritage. Racial science was in vogue, which held those of Anglo-Saxon descent at the "pinnacle" of human development, and described those of mixed or African heritage as mongrel-like beings doomed to extinction (these are indirect quotes of U.S. politicians no less!). This line of thought is the driving force behind the development of Manifest Destiny, which was a openly racialized theory which proposed that white Americans were destined to dominate and extinguish "lesser races" who were inherently weaker.
Just some food for thought to think about what 'assimilation' meant 150+ years ago. The U.S. we live in today is a much more embracing and open culture, so naturally immigrants feel less pressure to adapt to the dominant culture so forcefully.
And the screamin' irony is; culturally speaking, Black Africans (and their children) from Ghana, Nigeria, etc. who freely immigrated to the USA are the most successful 'ethnic' minority--------above Asians.
Remember that the above immigrants are very 'WASP' in their core values---------hence the (fading) 'color bar' being lowered dramatically by White America for acceptance.
This is a subject I've done a bit of research on. You have to remember that during these "old times" (pre-World War II America) assimilation was not an option, but a survival tactic.
The United States of the 19th century was a drastically different place than today. The government and its citizens openly discriminated against nearly every group beside those of Anglo-Saxon heritage. Racial science was in vogue, which held those of Anglo-Saxon descent at the "pinnacle" of human development, and described those of mixed or African heritage as mongrel-like beings doomed to extinction (these are indirect quotes of U.S. politicians no less!). This line of thought is the driving force behind the development of Manifest Destiny, which was a openly racialized theory which proposed that white Americans were destined to dominate and extinguish "lesser races" who were inherently weaker.
Just some food for thought to think about what 'assimilation' meant 150+ years ago. The U.S. we live in today is a much more embracing and open culture, so naturally immigrants feel less pressure to adapt to the dominant culture so forcefully.
Exactly. I mean, how can you look back on the mentality of those times like it was the good 'ol days, when an American was an American. Of course you didn't see as much ethnic pride, it wasnt really allowed.
As time went on, the country made a lot of progress. After the civil rights movements, people learned to become proud of their ancestry, of their ethnicity. They didn't have to "downplay it" and be judged, you could acknowledge it and be proud of it, without being 'less American'.
And its amazing people are against that, and roll their eyes at that.
Its no coincedence that as open racism faded away, ethnic pride became more common.
Exactly. I mean, how can you look back on the mentality of those times like it was the good 'ol days, when an American was an American. Of course you didn't see as much ethnic pride, it wasnt really allowed.
As time went on, the country made a lot of progress. After the civil rights movements, people learned to become proud of their ancestry, of their ethnicity. They didn't have to "downplay it" and be judged, you could acknowledge it and be proud of it, without being 'less American'.
And its amazing people are against that, and roll their eyes at that.
FYI: I would have had the door slammed in my face as well 150 years ago due to my non WASP heritage.............things change.
FYI: I would have had the door slammed in my face as well 150 years ago due to my non WASP heritage.............things change.
It didnt change organically. And would you want it to be back to those kind of days?
It wouldn't affect you much, because you already downplay your ethnicity, but I wouldnt like it to be like that.
I'd rather have ethnic pride than have to "downplay" or hide my ethnicity to avoid discrimination.
It doesn't make me feel any less American. In fact, it makes me feel like a specific part of America.
I'm not clashing with people of other cultures/ethnicities. The whole theory is just pretty ridiculous. So ethnic groups are making demands in washington. So what? Just looks like more politics to me.
My "Roots" reference was a BIT of a humorous over-statement...but only a BIT. Yes, I DO credit Alex Haley with helping to bring about a sudden and enormous interest in MANY Americans toward their OWN 'roots'. The entire 'geneology' field, up until then mostly just the province of Mormons, suddenly exploded, and all sorts of people were buying books, spending vacation time tracing down "Papa's" journeys to America, etc etc etc.
Of course, Alex Haley didn't do this intentionally, and probably never even GUESSED his TV miniseries would have this effect..but it did....and it affected FAR more people than just African Americans, I can assure you. Several people in my own 'non AA' family watched "Roots" and proceeded to go 'way overboard' on the ethnic history, art work, etc etc etc.
Yes, as you sarcastically remind us, the 'great ol' USA' did indeed mistreat some of its 'children'. But you'll ALSO note that even these mistreated folks didn't give up, they recognized the basic 'goodness' of the system, and in the case of the J.A.'s, many went on to distinguish themselves fighting in World War II....
I guess the lesson here is that the 'good ol' USA' is a long way from perfect, but for MOST of us, it's home, and it's worth fighting for, and loyalty to IT takes precedence over loyalty to any 'ancestral' place...That is, up until NOW.
It wasn't just the Japanese Americans who distinguished themselves, no matter what you have been led to believe. Nine African Americans won the Medal of Honor and many others should have.
And yes, I know that Roots helped other people find interest in their roots (no pun intended, etc.). But African Americans were the ones who were most disconnected; descendants of voluntary immigrants know the names of their ancestors and know from whence they came.......
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I suppose it succeeded in 'fooling' its members into being patriotic, because they realized that as horrible as their life was in the segregated military, it was MARGINALLY better than life in a Nazi concentration camp, or strolling along on the "Bataan Death March". Maybe people in those days were just too gullible to realize they were being 'used'. Maybe they just made a rational choice to put up with the humiliation of being in a segregated military, if it would keep their segregated country from falling to Hitler....word was at the time, that HIS segregation made OURS look mild.
Don't worry..today we won't fall for that old 'patriotic' stuff any more.
Thank you. I hate to tell you this, but I would not have fought in WWII. My father and uncles did, and I will not condemn them for that. But I would not have.
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And the screamin' irony is; culturally speaking, Black Africans (and their children) from Ghana, Nigeria, etc. who freely immigrated to the USA are the most successful 'ethnic' minority--------above Asians.
You mean like Barack Obama?
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There are some who only choose to see the bad in a situation, Sunil's perverted Dad is one of them... Too many people take for granted what we have here... and the sacrifices that were made...
Seeing some of the sick, nasty, racist slime you post on here, I think you have no business calling me perverted. I don't just see the bad in a situation. I see the truth. Wish you could say the same.
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