U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 02-11-2007, 09:55 PM
 
597 posts, read 1,786,042 times
Reputation: 332

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
Everyone knows and believes illegal immigrants crossing the border have broken the law. If they haven't, let's just assume. Many believe they should deserve a punishment ranging from a fine to imprisonment, including myself to a small degree. But, do we realize where they come from, the situation, their homeland, their desperation? What would you say to personal responsibility of ones's family above breaking the law? Don't many Americans believe providing for one's family is their upmost responsiblity, tell me why illegal immigrants would have a different thought pattern. I don't think illegal immigrants are receiving a fair shake, this should help clear up why so many foreign born folks cross the U.S. border every year for higher wages and a better life. This does not clear them of breaking the law, but helps us understand their circumstance, and not misunderstand why they make the journey to America.
Okay, this is the trap that we have ourselves in because we are a compassionate people. That is the nature of America, we don't want to turn people back, because it feels wrong.

But, what has happened is that we have opened the door without regard to the consequence of our own citizens who are now paying dearly for this compassion we are showing to illegals. Gang violence and drugs, failing schools, failing hospitals, and changing language and culture are all a result of this. I very much empathize with these immigrants, they only want a better life, but we must and they must understand that we cannot take them all. Conversely, these immigrants do not have the right to demand citizenship. It is not their RIGHT to freely come to this country as they please. As a sovereign nation we have the RIGHT to stop their entrance by whatever means we feel necessary, be it a wall, troops, whatever.

 
Old 02-11-2007, 10:16 PM
 
1,398 posts, read 6,018,519 times
Reputation: 1788
I read many posts by many different apologists for illegals on this site now, and they all seem to have a common denominator regardless of "cultural" issues: elitist snobbery against working American citizens.

I consider it cruel and arrogant to be so against our fellow citizens, be they naturalized or born American citizens. Out in the real world of Los Angeles, the worst case scenario of the illegal-oriented under the table economies, one would perhaps see more evidence. Call for assorted services in the phone book listings here: one in five businesses will probably have gone under already, priced out by illegals undercutting wages. Get any of those remaining service people over to your place, and they're so greatful for business.

If one presumes only "low end" wage earners are affected, one is forgetting the panoply of all jobs that can be affected. And one is wrong. It's everything except the whitest of the whitest of the whitest collar, which is to say most all of us.

Those "millions and millions of illegal immigrants sending money back to their homeland" are stealing our taxable wages from our own economy, a classic "robbing Peter to pay Paul" scenario. They have no love whatsoever for our country and our people, even the naturalized citizens, and no emotional investment to make this a better place. And we wage-earners are overtaxed exponentially to keep paying for these millions and millions. Sometimes I think that people who are apologists for illegal immigrant law-breakers only look at their own preconceived ideas, and not the genuine situations of real, live working Americans whose lives are made tangibly worse by those real, live illegal immigrant law-breakers.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 07:19 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,847,515 times
Reputation: 330
Kdizzle,

It's not a trap, everyone believes illegal immigration is wrong and should have a certain punishment. The whole point is the treatment of illegal immigrants and understanding their circumstance, it's very easy to sit on the sideline and whine and complain about these folks in our nation. These people take a royal verbal beating on this site, in public, and other websites and chatrooms, and I think their not deserving a fair shake.

Are you able to get up in the morning and go to work and provide for your family? Do they strip you of any freedom you can excercise as an American? There are gangs in every race, and the gang population of illegal immigrants is small, as of every race. I worked with a Sureno gang member in Los Angeles and as he put it, "these people just want a better life, they don't want to be worried about dealing with gangs." They need to learn English, and many make an attempt with ESL classes. Many want to become legal and desperately file in papers every chance they get, but it's so easy to claim they don't want to assimilate, because we don't like their presence in our country. The United States cannot support everyone, but we still got the biggest muscles in the world, and the pessimism about this country is going to fall apart is bogus and ain't happening. Why can't they want citizenship? Who doesn't want to be an American? We have more rights and priviliges, more money, better way of life, than any other country on this planet. We have a right to excercise in protecting our borders. This issue of faireness is the treament of people, humans, illegal or legal, understanding their many times horrible situation, and has nothing to do with the border.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 07:42 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,847,515 times
Reputation: 330
fastfilm,

"elistist snobbery against working American Citizens." Maybe in another forum, but I never claimed a shovenisitic attitude toward American Citizens who want to work. The poor American shield is not usually true, because Americans have the ability to take an infinite amount of blue collar jobs. There are so many jobs out there, this nation has a very low unemployment rate. Please don't go an a spiel of how this country is spiraling downward into a deep pit.

I live in Los Angeles, "the real world." Actually its really not, Los Angeles is very, very, different from the rest of the United States. The numerous people causes numerous jobs, entice more illegal immigrants to come to Los Angeles County rather than say less populated San Diego County or Mariposa County(Phoenix) Their are greater population levels in New York and Chicago, most of the United States is not big city, they know where the jobs are, that's when they flock there. They are grateful for business, I see no problem with that. They only affect construction, restaurant, and manafacturing business in Los Angeles, which is not a large category of jobs on the whole. Again, the poor American shield, there's plenty of jobs for Americans that haven't been undercut.

Give me evidence their cutting the pay of American Workers in the lower bracket. You're telling me illegal immigrants are affecting middle class jobs, give me some more evidence.

"Those millions and millions of immigrants" stealing our taxpayer money and sending back to friends and family in Mexico. Would you like some cheese with that whine? Another round, of folks complaining about how they've been jipped by illegal immigrants or the system. Smell reality, you make a ton of more of money than they, regardless of any social services. It's actually not correct, a small portion of money is taken in health care services and much of their culture shuns welfare. Many work very hard to earn money, and most of them don't lick their chops to steal taxpayer money from Americans. We all want poor Americans to have healthcare insurance and be covered in all aspects, but we don't see an illegal immigrants as human, just as a criminal stripped of rights. You know I've ran red lights before and made an illegal left hand turn and maybe I should be stripped of health care insurance. I did break the law, I must not deserve healthcare.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:01 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
fastfilm,

"elistist snobbery against working American Citizens." Maybe in another forum, but I never claimed a shovenisitic attitude toward American Citizens who want to work. The poor American shield is not usually true, because Americans have the ability to take an infinite amount of blue collar jobs. There are so many jobs out there, this nation has a very low unemployment rate. Please don't go an a spiel of how this country is spiraling downward into a deep pit.

I live in Los Angeles, "the real world." Actually its really not, Los Angeles is very, very, different from the rest of the United States. The numerous people causes numerous jobs, entice more illegal immigrants to come to Los Angeles County rather than say less populated San Diego County or Mariposa County(Phoenix) Their are greater population levels in New York and Chicago, most of the United States is not big city, they know where the jobs are, that's when they flock there. They are grateful for business, I see no problem with that. They only affect construction, restaurant, and manafacturing business in Los Angeles, which is not a large category of jobs on the whole. Again, the poor American shield, there's plenty of jobs for Americans that haven't been undercut.

Give me evidence their cutting the pay of American Workers in the lower bracket. You're telling me illegal immigrants are affecting middle class jobs, give me some more evidence.

"Those millions and millions of immigrants" stealing our taxpayer money and sending back to friends and family in Mexico. Would you like some cheese with that whine? Another round, of folks complaining about how they've been jipped by illegal immigrants or the system. Smell reality, you make a ton of more of money than they, regardless of any social services. It's actually not correct, a small portion of money is taken in health care services and much of their culture shuns welfare. Many work very hard to earn money, and most of them don't lick their chops to steal taxpayer money from Americans. We all want poor Americans to have healthcare insurance and be covered in all aspects, but we don't see an illegal immigrants as human, just as a criminal stripped of rights. You know I've ran red lights before and made an illegal left hand turn and maybe I should be stripped of health care insurance. I did break the law, I must not deserve healthcare.
I would attempt to respond to this, but I am not even sure where to begin.....
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
WASHINGTON (August 25, 2004) — A new study from the Center for Immigration Studies is one of the first to estimate the impact of illegal immigration on the federal budget. Based on Census Bureau data, the study estimates that households headed by illegal aliens used $10 billion more in government services than they paid in taxes in 2002. These figures are only for the federal government; costs at the state and local level are also likely to be significant. The study also finds that if illegals were given amnesty, the fiscal deficit at the federal level would grow to nearly $29 billion.



Do you wanna cover the 10 billion extra? Thats just federal with state it is even higher. Who do you think covers that? That money would be better spent elsewhere. And I think some miss the point all together, We as citizens shouldnt have to give up our lower rung jobs to ILLEGALS and go to school (how we are paying this without a job I dont know) and find new jobs, this is our country and home. They have their own country, and nothing will get better if the entire population ends up here, they just bring their poor life style here, thats all they know. They need to stay home and fight to fix their own country. There is a difference between sympathy and stupidity.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:13 AM
 
Location: South Bay, California
1,701 posts, read 5,847,515 times
Reputation: 330
Has the government asked you to pay for it? I don't remember them soliciting at my house, asking me to pay an up front fee. The money is paid in taxes over a long period of time. The money would be spent elsewhere, you mean other than poor people who are trying to get by and have a better life in our nation. I need evidence to show they affect the lower end job sector in a large way. Nothing will get better if they end up here, is that the famous American pessimism where were all headed down the toilet, or illegal immigrants increasing their wages significantly in this nation to help better provide for themselves and others. They need to fix their own country? I'm sure many people would like to send a 30 page essay to the president's desk for their idea to run this country. How do you end corrupt police? How do you tell the president to help with the impoverished in your nation? How do you build highways, jobs, and homes without money? Don't answer the question, it doesn't have an answer.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
Has the government asked you to pay for it? I don't remember them soliciting at my house, asking me to pay an up front fee. The money is paid in taxes over a long period of time. The money would be spent elsewhere, you mean other than poor people who are trying to get by and have a better life in our nation. I need evidence to show they affect the lower end job sector in a large way. Nothing will get better if they end up here, is that the famous American pessimism where were all headed down the toilet, or illegal immigrants increasing their wages significantly in this nation to help better provide for themselves and others. They need to fix their own country? I'm sure many people would like to send a 30 page essay to the president's desk for their idea to run this country. How do you end corrupt police? How do you tell the president to help with the impoverished in your nation? How do you build highways, jobs, and homes without money? Don't answer the question, it doesn't have an answer.

Gee, how do we manage to do all that with our own country, or any of the other countries? Taxes over a long period , funny and again why should we have to pay it? That 10 billion we pay, could go to improve our nations problems, with healthcare and homeless and schools . How much do you pay in taxes a year? Well I pay alot!!! And again you skirt the issue, I asked why we should have to give up our jobs, that we have worked for years? We dont like the way America is being run right now, so I guess we should all just Run to Canada or Mexico, because we cant fix it.
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:24 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by dusesean1986 View Post
Has the government asked you to pay for it? I don't remember them soliciting at my house, asking me to pay an up front fee. The money is paid in taxes over a long period of time. The money would be spent elsewhere, you mean other than poor people who are trying to get by and have a better life in our nation. I need evidence to show they affect the lower end job sector in a large way. Nothing will get better if they end up here, is that the famous American pessimism where were all headed down the toilet, or illegal immigrants increasing their wages significantly in this nation to help better provide for themselves and others. They need to fix their own country? I'm sure many people would like to send a 30 page essay to the president's desk for their idea to run this country. How do you end corrupt police? How do you tell the president to help with the impoverished in your nation? How do you build highways, jobs, and homes without money? Don't answer the question, it doesn't have an answer.
Let's back up for a minute. Do you agree that the US is a sovereign nation? Do you agree the United States has borders? Do you agree that there is a legal path for citizens of other countries who wish to come to the US?
 
Old 02-12-2007, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,692,551 times
Reputation: 2086
GREELEY - The line of applicants hoping to fill jobs vacated by undocumented workers taken away by immigration agents at the Swift & Co. meat-processing plant earlier this week was out the door Thursday.

Among them was Derrick Stegall, who carefully filled out paperwork he hoped would get him an interview and eventually land him a job as a slaughterer. Two of his friends had been taken away by Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents and he felt compelled to fill their rubber boots.
Moderator cut: Provide a link instead of copying everything here, please


Gee I thought Americans wouldnt do these jobs?

Last edited by Marka; 12-07-2007 at 11:33 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top