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Old 02-14-2007, 12:34 PM
 
2,218 posts, read 4,888,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
Mine too worked the railroad, (wonder if our families knew each other). I agree with your statement, life for the immigrants of the past was ALOT harder and more harsh than those of today. yet they managed to make it through and adapt and assimulate and become productive members.
Tell me about it.

I especially like the stories of how if they wanted to express their opinion over something, they were very likely to get shot or worse.

Unlike today that, where if illegals, and immigrants of today express their opinion you have to be all for it. Because a riot back then they just would of shot them and brought more in... Riot today, OH NO! They already proved what they would do...

TRASH THE IMMIGRATION BILLS! They are all protesting!

Good, fire them, then hire someone else that wants to do the work. Regardless of what it pays.

(And That's an interesting thought!)
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,156 times
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Two pages full of nothing but same, usless fodder. I haven't seen a feasible solution yet-- and that's in the whole of the City-Data forums.

Before you berade me, I haven't offered a solution either. The difference remains that I don't complain tirelessly about the problem; I can acknowledge that there is no easy solution and it may take a lifetime before an encompassing, logistically sound resolution is achieved.
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Old 02-16-2007, 06:34 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,713,217 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
Two pages full of nothing but same, usless fodder. I haven't seen a feasible solution yet-- and that's in the whole of the City-Data forums.

Before you berade me, I haven't offered a solution either. The difference remains that I don't complain tirelessly about the problem; I can acknowledge that there is no easy solution and it may take a lifetime before an encompassing, logistically sound resolution is achieved.
Any solution other than complete amnesty is not going to be considered 'feasible' by yourself and your reconquista brethren (not bretheren). Why bother posting potential solutions here? I post my ideas elsewhere, others may do the same.
Complaining 'tirelessly' brought about the civil rights movement and helped end the Vietnam War IMO. Do not underestimate what can be achieved by millions of truly angry Americans.
Furthermore, I don't necessarily see immigration discussions here as complaining. Many posts serve an educational purpose. If just one person reads the information I have posted on the crises in healthcare stemming from illegal aliens and begins to consider the possibility that we have a problem, I am happy with that.
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,975,059 times
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A solution is not going to be politically palatable to liberals and conservatives alike, for different reasons.

The left would have to give up on "identity politics" and return to the ideal of the melting pot which the left used to embrace. There are people whose power and financial well being depend upon identity politics and who would feel threatened without them.

Economic conservatives would have to deal with tough laws against hiring illegals with the possibility of prison time and perhaps asset forfeiture for repeat offenders (which is by far the MOST important part of any strategy to reduce illegal immigration). They also would not like the inevitable increase in taxes that would be required for any effective policy to cut down on the flow of the undocumented, nor would they like the strengthening of unions that would come from reduced levels of illegal immigration, as American workers would be emboldened to demand better conditions and pay again. Social conservatives especially, but also the entire mainstream of US political opinion, would have to stomach legalizing certain things that draw illegals into the US BECAUSE of their illegality keeping Americans and legal immigrants out of those fields, i.e. drugs and prostitution. (Not all of the jobs that illegals take are legally permitted ones).

While I don't like the idea of amnesty, it isn't possible to deport every illegal immigrant in the US, and those who have been in the US for many years, who are not involved in crime or political/religious extremism, AND who are able to speak English should somehow be able to go through a process that would lead to legal residency, if only because the resources do not exist to get rid of all illegals. This would have to be rather limited in scope and could only work if combined with stricter border enforcement.
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Old 02-16-2007, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Spots Wyoming
18,696 posts, read 35,437,993 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
Two pages full of nothing but same, usless fodder. I haven't seen a feasible solution yet-- and that's in the whole of the City-Data forums.

Before you berade me, I haven't offered a solution either. The difference remains that I don't complain tirelessly about the problem; I can acknowledge that there is no easy solution and it may take a lifetime before an encompassing, logistically sound resolution is achieved.
I think there is no fool proof answer. At least not short term. But here is my 2 cents worth.

All of our ancesters came from another country, many of them were solicited to come here to add to our states for areas of work that we needed their expertise. So these folks also have the right to try and come into our country. They just need to be legal about it.

Short term goals. Offer a 6 month amnesty if they register and start the process of legal immigration. Those applications should be reviewed for things like, Reason coming to America. If they answer that they come strictly to send money home and have no intention of going back. They're out of here. If they answer with things like "I came here because I wanted an education and the opportunity to excel and contribute to the growth and welfare of the united states. Then that person should be considered.

I realized that this would be a very large program and cost a lot of money. But think about the cost if we don't do anything. But in order to straighten out the mess, we're going to have to throw some money at it to begin with. Like I said, this would be a short term goal. I don't believe a long term goal can be generated until we see how this is working. If we have 300,000 illegals and 17 register for this program, we should be dynamic enough to change attitudes and direction of the program. But I firmly believe, that if something like this were advertised and publicised that we would get a majority of people on track.

Sure, there's probably lots of holes in my thinking. But we have to start somewhere and we have to start soon.
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:05 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,156 times
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Thanks Andreabeth for correcting my typo, I appreciate it .

I don't know about you, but repeatedly "enlightening" others about the amount of trash, shopping carts, and non-English speaking people prevelent in your neck of the woods does nothing to relieve the problem nor does it move us toward a feasible solution. If anything, those sort of posts fuel racial and socioeconomic tensions and allow for the bigots to come out from the woodwork to provide their $0.02 about the 'brown invasion'-- and that's their perogative.

I'm a logical person and I acknowledge the fact that at some point the government will need to completely close the border, but that doesn't affect those illegal immigrants already here, right?

Anyhow, what happens when the government increases the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, yet millions still remain? How do you get the already assimilated illegal immigrants to leave? How does the government go about removing those that aren't institutionally chased away? No one seems to have an answer.
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:21 PM
 
1,735 posts, read 4,139,418 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Amavel View Post
I'm a logical person and I acknowledge the fact that at some point the government will need to completely close the border, but that doesn't affect those illegal immigrants already here, right?

Anyhow, what happens when the government increases the penalties for hiring illegal immigrants, yet millions still remain? How do you get the already assimilated illegal immigrants to leave? How does the government go about removing those that aren't institutionally chased away? No one seems to have an answer.
This is done through attrition. Once the border is closed and businesses stop hiring due to stiff penalties those that canít find work will go home.
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:27 PM
 
Location: Orange County
354 posts, read 762,156 times
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And those that have lived in the U.S. for as long as their memory allows? And those whose children are citizens? And what about those that don't have the means to return to their country of origin? And those that have escaped war-torn countries or genocidal situations?

I suppose all 20 million will hold a meeting, realize they can't find work, and collectively make plans to migrate 'home'. Why didn't American citizens realize this sooner?!
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Old 02-16-2007, 08:45 PM
 
Location: Earth
17,449 posts, read 22,975,059 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iroquoispliskin View Post


TRASH THE IMMIGRATION BILLS! They are all protesting!

Good, fire them, then hire someone else that wants to do the work. Regardless of what it pays.

(And That's an interesting thought!)
So here's a question. Would you advocate that those segments of US society who are often considered "undesirable" by employers - the people who are hurt the most by illegal immigration - be hired instead?
For example, recently released ex-cons, runaway teens, or the adult homeless?
The "law and order" types would treat the so called "dregs" of US society just as badly if illegal immigration was reduced, however, any solution to the illegal immigration crisis should include hiring those people who businesses want to shun in place of illegals. Doing this would help reduce other problems in US society, such as homelessness, recidivism, and the sorry plight of kids who grow up in the system.
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Old 02-16-2007, 09:33 PM
 
2,218 posts, read 4,888,126 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by majoun View Post
So here's a question. Would you advocate that those segments of US society who are often considered "undesirable" by employers - the people who are hurt the most by illegal immigration - be hired instead?
For example, recently released ex-cons, runaway teens, or the adult homeless?
Why not? That's all the Wal-mart where I live hires, is ex-cons. And you know they are because they like talking to people and telling them.

And for all you that want to say "Where's your proof, provide sound samples, and documentation." Well I would record what they say, then I would go to jail for recording what they are saying without prior consent.


But really, why not? Everyone deserves a second chance right? Or maybe a third chance. Or more? Just like the people who get deported and come back, and again, and again. It's the Energizer bunny, it's going to keep going and going, and going.

Because no one wants to face facts. You have to be harsh to make sure there is enough room for everyone.

I don't want to live in another Japan where they have to keep building up because there is no more land.

And it's not just ANY one type of immigrants, it's all types. They all want a better life. So do most Americans. Unfortunately it's not going to be here always. Because some people come here, and complain MORE than the people that are already here.
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