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Take away the incentives to be here, people go home, plain and simple.
No forcible deportations are necessary--thus no one will be "accidentally" deported.
Not in the country legally? No employment, no freebies, no citizenship for children of those in this country in violation of sovereiign law--no illegal immigrants.
Tom Tancredo was extremely influential and successful on a state level and local level and would have been elected again had he not decided to retire from Congress.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,428,052 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele
Thanks!
Tom Tancredo was extremely influential and successful on a state level and local level and would have been elected again had he not decided to retire from Congress.
Location: The City of Angels, halfway between St. Augustine's cities.
9 posts, read 11,517 times
Reputation: 11
Thinking issues through still works in this country, and does not make one "touchy-feely." What we need less of are people who stick to ideologies, left and right, without making a reasoned judgement. Why am I being put down for not resorting to swearing, name-calling and ridiculing? I guess the immigration section of www.city-data.com is dominated by people who share the opinion of most of the responders. I am just trying to bring a different view to this forum, one that is sorely lacking here.
Assumptions abound here. For one thing, white guilt has nothing to do with this. I am also not accusing anyone of being a redneck. I detest stereotypes of all kind. I make no apologies for what earlier generations of Americans have done or did not do. I was not around then. What I do advocate for is knowing the facts of what happened in our past and how they directly influence the way things are today, and working to remedy problems with deep roots, such as immigration.
I still know that all immigrants, legal and illegal, work hard. Many families with undocumented parents do have a child that plays mom, but that is because both parents usually work at least part time, often full time. As for taxes, a good number of them actually do pay income taxes. I know that will sound hard to believe for many of you, but I am not making this up. As for welfare, most do not use it, just like most lower-income citizens do not use it. Now think of what would happen if these people were legalized. We would have all of them paying taxes, subject to IRS audits as with everyone else, in the open.
Comparing bank robbers to low-wage workers who are currently living in the United States illegally is comparing like apples and oranges. Not all crimes are equal, and to make this comparison is silly. If you are looking at things in terms of real economic and political damage to the US, and the world, look at the CEOs of the many companies whose reckless speculation has sunk us into this mess and their golden parachute wrist-slaps. Those are crimes worth obsessing over.
A speedy application and naturalization process is a rarity for most immigrants. There are many factors in play, and country of origin, timeframe (the year you apply) and what kind of visa one applies for play a huge role in the factor. For instance, skilled workers that companies like Google and Microsoft employ take years to even get a visa to enter, due to the huge backlog in skilled workers, especially if they come from countries like India and China. The father of a friend of mine was recruited by UCLA to work in cellular chemistry in 1991. He is as a skilled a worker as one can find, has no criminal record, and he still is not a citizen, seventeen years later.
Seeing as things are now, with Democrats poised to take the White House and make significant gains in both houses of Congress, CIR as whole or piecemeal looks very likely. It is not certain, but by my reckoning I think it has a very good chance of passing within the next few years. From my original post on page four (which I recommend you read to understand my views), you know my sentiments. The bulk of the population of illegal immigrants are not going away. Increased enforcement will only create the illusion of progress, as the problems we face now get worse and worse. Look outside the box and think rationally and pragmatically.
Last edited by AuxEtoiles; 10-22-2008 at 07:15 PM..
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,428,052 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuxEtoiles
Thinking issues through still works in this country, and does not make one "touchy-feely." What we need less of are people who stick to ideologies, left and right, without making a reasoned judgement. Why am I being put down for not resorting to swearing, name-calling and ridiculing? I guess the immigration section of www.city-data.com is dominated by people who share the opinion of most of the responders. I am just trying to bring a different view to this forum, one that is sorely lacking here.
Assumptions abound here. For one thing, white guilt has nothing to do with this. I am also not accusing anyone of being a redneck. I detest stereotypes of all kind. I make no apologies for what earlier generations of Americans have done or did not do. I was not around then. What I do advocate for is knowing the facts of what happened in our past and how they directly influence the way things are today, and working to remedy problems with deep roots, such as immigration.
I still know that all immigrants, legal and illegal, work hard. Many families with undocumented parents do have a child that plays mom, but that is because both parents usually work at least part time, often full time. As for taxes, a good number of them actually do pay income taxes. I know that will sound hard to believe for many of you, but I am not making this up. As for welfare, most do not use it, just like most lower-income citizens do not use it. Now think of what would happen if these people were legalized. We would have all of them paying taxes, subject to IRS audits as with everyone else, in the open.
Comparing bank robbers to low-wage workers who are currently living in the United States illegally is comparing like apples and oranges. Not all crimes are equal, and to make this comparison is silly. If you are looking at things in terms of real economic and political damage to the US, and the world, look at the CEOs of the many companies whose reckless speculation has sunk us into this mess and their golden parachute wrist-slaps. Those are crimes worth obsessing over.
A speedy application and naturalization process is a rarity for most immigrants. There are many factors in play, and country of origin, timeframe (the year you apply) and what kind of visa one applies for play a huge role in the factor. For instance, skilled workers that companies like Google and Microsoft employ take years to even get a visa to enter, due to the huge backlog in skilled workers, especially if they come from countries like India and Mexico. The father of a friend of mine was recruited by UCLA to work in cellular chemistry in 1991. He is as a skilled a worker as one can find, has no criminal record, and he still is not a citizen, seventeen years later.
Seeing as things are now, with Democrats poised to take the White House and make significant gains in both houses of Congress, CIR as whole or piecemeal looks very likely. It is not certain, but by my reckoning I think it has a very good chance of passing within the next few years. From my original post on page four (which I recommend you read to understand my views), you know my sentiments. The bulk of the population of illegal immigrants are not going away. Increased enforcement will only create the illusion of progress, as the problems we face now get worse and worse. Look outside the box and think rationally and pragmatically.
Quote:
As for taxes, a good number of them actually do pay income taxes. I know that will sound hard to believe for many of you, but I am not making this up.
..........................Prove it...
How do they pay taxes without a legitimate SS#?....Explain that
Location: The City of Angels, halfway between St. Augustine's cities.
9 posts, read 11,517 times
Reputation: 11
The IRS does not care who they get their get their taxes from, as long as they get their taxes. That's why there is the TIN (Tax Identification Number), which allows one to pay taxes without a SS#.
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 19,428,052 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by AuxEtoiles
The IRS does not care who they get their get their taxes from, as long as they get their taxes. That's why there is the TIN (Tax Identification Number), which allows one to pay taxes without a SS#.
Thinking issues through still works in this country, and does not make one "touchy-feely." What we need less of are people who stick to ideologies, left and right, without making a reasoned judgement. Why am I being put down for not resorting to swearing, name-calling and ridiculing? I guess the immigration section of www.city-data.com is dominated by people who share the opinion of most of the responders. I am just trying to bring a different view to this forum, one that is sorely lacking here.
Assumptions abound here. For one thing, white guilt has nothing to do with this. I am also not accusing anyone of being a redneck. I detest stereotypes of all kind. I make no apologies for what earlier generations of Americans have done or did not do. I was not around then. What I do advocate for is knowing the facts of what happened in our past and how they directly influence the way things are today, and working to remedy problems with deep roots, such as immigration.
I still know that all immigrants, legal and illegal, work hard. Many families with undocumented parents do have a child that plays mom, but that is because both parents usually work at least part time, often full time. As for taxes, a good number of them actually do pay income taxes. I know that will sound hard to believe for many of you, but I am not making this up. As for welfare, most do not use it, just like most lower-income citizens do not use it. Now think of what would happen if these people were legalized. We would have all of them paying taxes, subject to IRS audits as with everyone else, in the open.
Comparing bank robbers to low-wage workers who are currently living in the United States illegally is comparing like apples and oranges. Not all crimes are equal, and to make this comparison is silly. If you are looking at things in terms of real economic and political damage to the US, and the world, look at the CEOs of the many companies whose reckless speculation has sunk us into this mess and their golden parachute wrist-slaps. Those are crimes worth obsessing over.
A speedy application and naturalization process is a rarity for most immigrants. There are many factors in play, and country of origin, timeframe (the year you apply) and what kind of visa one applies for play a huge role in the factor. For instance, skilled workers that companies like Google and Microsoft employ take years to even get a visa to enter, due to the huge backlog in skilled workers, especially if they come from countries like India and China. The father of a friend of mine was recruited by UCLA to work in cellular chemistry in 1991. He is as a skilled a worker as one can find, has no criminal record, and he still is not a citizen, seventeen years later.
Seeing as things are now, with Democrats poised to take the White House and make significant gains in both houses of Congress, CIR as whole or piecemeal looks very likely. It is not certain, but by my reckoning I think it has a very good chance of passing within the next few years. From my original post on page four (which I recommend you read to understand my views), you know my sentiments. The bulk of the population of illegal immigrants are not going away. Increased enforcement will only create the illusion of progress, as the problems we face now get worse and worse. Look outside the box and think rationally and pragmatically.
If there is compassionate immigration reform, which to be honest is a nice way to say amnesty, what is to prevent another amnesty ten, fifteen, twenty years down the road? By allowing millions of people to live here illegally then reward with them with citizenship are we not inviting more and more illegals into the country with the hope of another amnesty? After all, Reagans amnesty was supposed to stop the problem of illegal immigration. Didn't work, did it?
Clearly we need to impost fines and yes, jail time to businesses who hire illegals. But again, what message are we sending to the businesses by signing into law CIR? The law says the one thing but the government is keeping an assured flow of illegal low paid workers. Who to believe?
Do you propose open borders? Do you propose doing away with all immigration laws? By supporting CIR that is exactly what you are advocating. What should be the limit?
The IRS does not care who they get their get their taxes from, as long as they get their taxes. That's why there is the TIN (Tax Identification Number), which allows one to pay taxes without a SS#.
I'm moved to quote myself from an earlier post, because it seems as if these few points are sorely lacking in those who seem to feel we need to revise our immigration laws, which by the way, are some of the most liberal immigration laws in the world, in order to be "more compassionate" to those who are in this country illegally.
We all know that compassion isn't the motivation behind illegal immigration. It's all about the bottom line--greed. It's mighty convenient having an entire segment of the population who are here illegally, who will work for bargain basement wages (while driving down wages for legal citizens) and not complain because they fear deportation.
The Reagan Amnesty in 1986 promised that our borders would be secured, our laws enforced, and that the American people would never have another Amnesty shoved down our throats. Call it what you will, but "Compassionate Immigration Reform" is nothing more than Amnesty--a wolf in sheep's clothing.
If "Compassionate Immigration Reform" is enacted, then we all know the drill from there, and therein lies the reason that you cannot interest any of us in rethinking our stance on illegal immigration. Corporate America will still require its slave labor. We will be forced to incorporate 20 million mostly poor and illiterate new citizens into our infrastructure within a relatively short period of time, while our borders remain as porous as they are today.
We all know who runs the show, from their ownership of America down to their ownership of America's politicians--Big Business. And after all, we can't deprive all of those struggling conglomerates of their indetured servants, now can we? How else are they expected to give their CEO's seven digit bonuses at the end of the year?
Looking at illegal immigration from south of the border which, whether certain folks on this board want to admit it or not--makes up more than 80% of the illegal immigrants in the United States today, I have to admit--I have a big problem with it. However, my disagreement is not with the ethnic makeup of illegal immigrants. It is with the fact that Mexico sees nothing wrong with dumping a large percentage of its poor and illiterate off on the U.S. and her taxpayers, while receiving pretty hefty remittances from those same poor and illiterate whose sole allegiance remains with their home country.
Mexico is the 16th richest country in the world. If all of its people weren't so busy trying to live off of the American taxpayer's dime, perhaps they could actually accomplish something toward fixing their own country instead of coming here and becoming a burden on society in ours.
Wake up.
There is no such thing as true compassionate immigration reform. The laws that are in place to regulate our borders and the number of people allowed into this country during any given period of time work just fine if they are enforced.
Anything other than deportation through attrition rewards those who flaunt our sovereign laws. If you can't see the flaws in allowing lawbreakers to be rewarded (yet again!) with a pathway to citizenship, then we might as well end this discussion now because we will most definitely never find common ground.
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