U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 10-20-2008, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
1,238 posts, read 2,180,235 times
Reputation: 507

Advertisements

I used to be strictly anti-illegal immigration, even wanted to kick them all out of the country, put them in jail, separate and tear families apart, etc. But after really evaluating the situation on a variety of fronts, including economical, religious, socially, morally, etc, I have come to the conclusion that the solution to the problem does not lie on either spectrum (complete pro or complete anti), rather it lies in the middle.

The biggest obstacle to overcome in my opinion is assimilation. Before we allow anyone to permanently live in our country, assimilation is a must factor. Anyone wanting to live in this nation MUST learn English, no if's and's or but's. Anyone wanting to work, pay taxes, or communicate with anyone outside their own home needs to have some basic understandings of our language. It may not be the official language of the land, but it is the de facto language of the land and must be respected. Much of the animosity towards those of Hispanic origins who are illegal is their lack of communication abilities with the rest of us.

Also, when allowing these people to live here permanently, they must have no criminal background whatsoever with the exception of them living here illegally.

Now, many of you are going to dislike what I am saying here, however it is very inhumane, and very anti-American to just deport millions of people and ruin their lives. No, it is not fair that they are here. No, they do not have a right to be here. But the fact of the matter is that most of these people are hard workers who are just trying to escape a life that did not treat them very well to a life that is better for them and their families. It is time to show a little compassion, but be very firm. We want these people to succeed and live decent lives, but they must follow our laws, pay our taxes, speak our language, and become accustomed to our culture. To do anything otherwise would (and is) creating a situation similar to that in Quebec where a portion of the population wants nothing to do with the rest of the country. This is not good for our future or the health of this country. These people are also a drain on many of our resources as of current.

Much more could be added to any plan, but to completely kick them out of the country is a very illogical decision in my humble opinion.

 
Old 10-20-2008, 01:29 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,686,811 times
Reputation: 3010
Here's my compassionate solution.

Go home to your country of origin and get in line behind those legal immigrants whose love and respect for the United States of America is evident in their desire to follow the letter of the law in order to be here.

That's as much compassion as I'm willing to give.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Romeoville, IL
1,238 posts, read 2,180,235 times
Reputation: 507
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Here's my compassionate solution.

Go home to your country of origin and get in line behind those legal immigrants whose love and respect for the United States of America is evident in their desire to follow the letter of the law in order to be here.

That's as much compassion as I'm willing to give.
That is fine. I also used to think this. However, it is a very unrealistic line of thinking, one that is getting us no where.

Take in mind I come from a city, Corpus Christi, Texas that has been ravaged by illegal immigrants. The population is close to 60% Hispanic and crime rates in certain parts of the city are outrageous. I also see the positive influence illegals and legal Hispanics have on the city, far more so than the negative.

I also live in Illinois, a state with a very high illegal population. I've known a few illegals first hand (I worked at an Applebee's and the majority of the cooks were illegals) and I can tell you that these people aren't all criminals. They are trying to make a living.

If I were living in a country that experienced severe corruption, poverty, starvation, etc I would do the same these people do. I would migrate elsewhere, legally or not, and get away from these problems. If I wasn't making enough money to support and raise my family back home, then I would move to a place where I could make enough money. Sorry, but that is reality. You cannot stop something as big as illegal immigration simply by just saying we need to kick them all out.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Mexifornia (for now)
136 posts, read 256,821 times
Reputation: 118
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
The biggest obstacle to overcome in my opinion is assimilation. Before we allow anyone to permanently live in our country, assimilation is a must factor. Anyone wanting to live in this nation MUST learn English, no if's and's or but's. Anyone wanting to work, pay taxes, or communicate with anyone outside their own home needs to have some basic understandings of our language. It may not be the official language of the land, but it is the de facto language of the land and must be respected. Much of the animosity towards those of Hispanic origins who are illegal is their lack of communication abilities with the rest of us.
Duh! But the problem is that many illegal immigrants, especially from Mexico, are fiercely proud of their homeland and believe that the law should accommodate them. Some of them strangely believe that they're entitled to something that they never earned in the first place.

Quote:
Also, when allowing these people to live here permanently, they must have no criminal background whatsoever with the exception of them living here illegally.
So they shouldn't be allowed to break any law with the exception of one law. Later on, let's add some more exceptions because of this and that...and later on let's add a few more exceptions because of blah blah blah...and then add some more exceptions...and some more exceptions...and some more...and some more...and some more...and some more...

Then where do you stop?

Quote:
Now, many of you are going to dislike what I am saying here, however it is very inhumane, and very anti-American to just deport millions of people and ruin their lives.
Is it also very anti-American to allow people to break the law because some greedy corporations and sympathy-pandering politicians want them to be here and do not consider the social and financial ramifications that could occur?

Quote:
No, it is not fair that they are here. No, they do not have a right to be here. But the fact of the matter is that most of these people are hard workers who are just trying to escape a life that did not treat them very well to a life that is better for them and their families. It is time to show a little compassion, but be very firm. We want these people to succeed and live decent lives, but they must follow our laws, pay our taxes, speak our language, and become accustomed to our culture. To do anything otherwise would (and is) creating a situation similar to that in Quebec where a portion of the population wants nothing to do with the rest of the country. This is not good for our future or the health of this country. These people are also a drain on many of our resources as of current.

Much more could be added to any plan, but to completely kick them out of the country is a very illogical decision in my humble opinion.
I'm pretty sure that there are MILLIONS of people from war-torn and poverty stricken countries who'd love to live here but the truth is our society simply cannot function by allowing unregulated masses of unskilled and uneducated illegal immigrants into the country!

That's reality! If you can't get in legally for the first time, then either try again next time or don't apply at all! I'm sorry but not every single poor person who wants to be saved can be saved. This would include poor illegal immigrants.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
I couldn’t agree more with Kele and mdonaldson.

Also, what do you suggest we do with the millions of LEGAL citizens being displaced due to illegal immigration? Does your “compassion” include them?

Furthermore, the vast majority of illegal aliens are not escaping starvation. As a matter of fact, Mexico is experiencing an obesity problem.

I am told that I epitomize compassion -- actually, to a fault. However, I will not support ANY form of amnesty.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Texas
42,204 posts, read 49,740,662 times
Reputation: 66975
Aaron, I really admire your compassion. But having lived amongst illegals as you have said, did you not notice a few things about the great majority of them? They already don't much care about the law, and I don't think they are going to take your guidelines very seriously, either.

I have lived and worked and provided care amongst these people for years. They have their good and bad points, and not all of them are the same. But the overwhelming sentiment I got from most of them is that they think the rest of y'all are a bunch of chumps that they're going to milk for whatever they can get.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:10 PM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,686,811 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
That is fine. I also used to think this. However, it is a very unrealistic line of thinking, one that is getting us no where.

Take in mind I come from a city, Corpus Christi, Texas that has been ravaged by illegal immigrants. The population is close to 60% Hispanic and crime rates in certain parts of the city are outrageous. I also see the positive influence illegals and legal Hispanics have on the city, far more so than the negative.

I also live in Illinois, a state with a very high illegal population. I've known a few illegals first hand (I worked at an Applebee's and the majority of the cooks were illegals) and I can tell you that these people aren't all criminals. They are trying to make a living.

If I were living in a country that experienced severe corruption, poverty, starvation, etc I would do the same these people do. I would migrate elsewhere, legally or not, and get away from these problems. If I wasn't making enough money to support and raise my family back home, then I would move to a place where I could make enough money. Sorry, but that is reality. You cannot stop something as big as illegal immigration simply by just saying we need to kick them all out.
Did I simply say we needed to kick them all out?

Here are your compassionate solutions.

1. Clarify the Fourteenth Amendment. It was ratified to give citizenship to the children of slaves, not foreign nationals. No tempting birthright American citizenship, less pregnant foreign nationals of EVERY ethnicity coming into America in order to give birth to an American citizen.

2. Heavily fine and imprison all employers found to have illegal aliens in their employ.

3. No more benefits for illegal aliens. No citizenship--no WIC, no Medicare, no food stamps, no Section 8 housing, no medical care unless a life threatening emergency is in progress. No more freebies at the expense of American taxpayers--no more impetus to come to the U.S. illegally to live at the expense of hard-working citizens.

4. Legal residency must be proven before bank accounts can be opened and/or homes can be purchased or rented.

5. In this computer generation, it is ridiculous to believe that identity theft by Social Security number cannot be tracked. Hold accountable the thieves stealing American identities in order to work illegally in this country.

Five simple steps and Voila! Deportation through attrition and Border Patrol doesn't have to raise a finger. Rewarding lawless behavior is a ridiculous proposition and only opens the door to more lawbreakers hoping for the same reward.

As for the nonsense about the poverty and starvation SOB--I'll grant that many of their citizens go without. But there are millions upon millions of people in this world that are far worse off than Mexico's citizens, yet because they do not share a border with the United States, their ability to pick up and go is nil. We have plenty of people in this country who are living in abject poverty--Pine Ridge Indian Reservation and the Appalachias come to mind. Where is their compassion?

What about the 2,500 children who will die today in Africa? What about those who will die tomorrow? And the next day, and the next day...ad infinitum. They're dying of starvation and its related conditions--why not bring them to the U.S.--providing of course, that this is truly all about compassion.

But we all know that compassion isn't the methodology behind illegal immigration. It's all about the bottom line--greed. It's mighty convenient having an entire segment of the population who are here illegally, who will work for bargain basement wages and not complain because they fear deportation.

The Reagan Amnesty in 1986 promised that our borders would be secured, our laws enforced, and that the American people would never have another Amnesty shoved down our throats. Call it what you will, but "Compassionate Immigration Reform" is nothing more than Amnesty--a wolf in sheep's clothing.

If "Compassionate Immigration Reform" is enacted, then we all know the drill from there. Corporate America will still require its slave labor. We will suddenly be forced to incorporate 20 million mostly poor and illiterate new citizens into our infrastructure, while our borders remain as porous as they are today. After all, we can't deprive all of those struggling conglomerates of their serfs now can we?

Mexico is the 16th richest country in the world. If all of its people weren't busy trying to live off of the American taxpayer's dime, perhaps they could actually accomplish something toward fixing their own country instead of coming here and becoming a burden on society in ours.

Wake up.

There is no such thing as true compassionate immigration reform. The laws that are in place to regulate our borders and the number of people allowed into this country during any given period of time work just fine if they are enforced.

Anything other than deportation through attrition rewards those who flaunt our sovereign laws. If you can't see the flaws in allowing lawbreakers to be rewarded with a pathway to citizenship, then we might as well end this discussion now.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:13 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,032,296 times
Reputation: 2873
It sounds great, aaronk but what do you do for those immigrants who refuse to learn english? What about those illegal immigrants that refuse to assimiliate? Do you propse we give all illegals two or three generation time frame to get current with american culture as some here have suggested?
Face it, you cannot make people become americans or become loyal to the US. All you can do is open the border and hope for the best. And that is not a good option for the citizens of this country and those immigrants who have an actual desire to become US citizens in all ways.
As to our existing immigration laws....well, its been hit or miss mainly because of sanctuary cities. One law should be followed throughout the land, then and only then will we be in a position to debate its effectiveness.
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:18 PM
 
Location: PA
5,513 posts, read 4,813,816 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by AaronK View Post
I used to be strictly anti-illegal immigration, even wanted to kick them all out of the country, put them in jail, separate and tear families apart, etc. But after really evaluating the situation on a variety of fronts, including economical, religious, socially, morally, etc, I have come to the conclusion that the solution to the problem does not lie on either spectrum (complete pro or complete anti), rather it lies in the middle.

The biggest obstacle to overcome in my opinion is assimilation. Before we allow anyone to permanently live in our country, assimilation is a must factor. Anyone wanting to live in this nation MUST learn English, no if's and's or but's. Anyone wanting to work, pay taxes, or communicate with anyone outside their own home needs to have some basic understandings of our language. It may not be the official language of the land, but it is the de facto language of the land and must be respected. Much of the animosity towards those of Hispanic origins who are illegal is their lack of communication abilities with the rest of us.

Also, when allowing these people to live here permanently, they must have no criminal background whatsoever with the exception of them living here illegally.

Now, many of you are going to dislike what I am saying here, however it is very inhumane, and very anti-American to just deport millions of people and ruin their lives. No, it is not fair that they are here. No, they do not have a right to be here. But the fact of the matter is that most of these people are hard workers who are just trying to escape a life that did not treat them very well to a life that is better for them and their families. It is time to show a little compassion, but be very firm. We want these people to succeed and live decent lives, but they must follow our laws, pay our taxes, speak our language, and become accustomed to our culture. To do anything otherwise would (and is) creating a situation similar to that in Quebec where a portion of the population wants nothing to do with the rest of the country. This is not good for our future or the health of this country. These people are also a drain on many of our resources as of current.

Much more could be added to any plan, but to completely kick them out of the country is a very illogical decision in my humble opinion.

Is this the John McCain plan and did you pull it from his website.
Thank you for your humble opinion but like most ideas on this topic the people in the middle usually think compromise WORKS!!!!! Well we have compromised to much already which got us into this mess. We have rules for a reason and some general laws. Like you stop at a red light so you dont kill other people on the road. If you want to come to this country you follow the immgration LAWS!!!!!!
 
Old 10-20-2008, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Southern Arizona
9,308 posts, read 25,652,204 times
Reputation: 10566
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Here's my compassionate solution.

Go home to your country of origin and get in line behind those legal immigrants whose love and respect for the United States of America is evident in their desire to follow the letter of the law in order to be here.

That's as much compassion as I'm willing to give.
I could not agree more, Kele

Sorry, Aaron . . . your approach is nothing more than REWARDING COMMON CRIMINALS.

What's next . . . rewarding Bank Robbers, Child Molesters and Murderers?

! ! ! !
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top