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Old 11-06-2008, 09:32 PM
 
492 posts, read 994,583 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Apples and oranges here:

Close/lock at least our southern border: anybody who knowingly hires an illegal immigrant is a criminal.

The products that you listed are sold legally in the USA.
Study after study has shown that immigrants take far less than what they contribute to the economy. Both Political parties have endorsed Immigration reform for that same economic reason. Laws change with time. During Prohibition it was illegal to drink alcohol, afterwards it became legal. As far as Immigration laws are concerned, they will eventually change soon. The only laws you should be concerned about are the universal laws that will save the spirit, not temporary man-made laws.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Northridge CA
74 posts, read 109,511 times
Reputation: 38
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Study after study has shown that immigrants take far less than what they contribute to the economy. Both Political parties have endorsed Immigration reform for that same economic reason. Laws change with time. During Prohibition it was illegal to drink alcohol, afterwards it became legal. As far as Immigration laws are concerned, they will eventually change soon. The only laws you should be concerned about are the universal laws that will save the spirit, not temporary man-made laws.
Hello??
Separation of church and state!!!

What studies have shown that?
Link us please.
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Old 11-06-2008, 11:21 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,884,971 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Are you equating American consumers who buy Toyotas, Hundas, and Sonys to mafia members? Do you know that those consumers who buy Chinese, Japanese, European products are forcing thousands of working Americans to the soup lines. I happen to think that those consumers are not mafia members, they just want more bang for their $$$. In this world everybody and everything must compete for survival. One cannot let people survive artificially (with Gvt interference). IMO that's how this world revolves, the weak and the dummies go down by the wayside. Look at all the Dinosaurs; they were too dumb to survive. There is no way that God is going to listen to you because he designed the world this way. In fact he may be detrimental to you.
Compare an apple to an apple. Illegals are criminals. The mafia are criminals. Both steal from honest Americans. Both fail to honestly report earned income. Cheat on taxes. Both commit fraud. Both delve into ID theft. Very comparable. Toyota hires Americans in American factories. Toyota pays a fair wage. Toyota's are not cheaper than their American counterparts. Your analogy like your logic is flawed.
Last I heard the Dino's were killed off by a planet killer impact. Had that not happened man may never have evolved.
Illegals cheat the system. They don't win by obeying the law, by offering a fair days work for a fair days pay. They intentionally low ball. They can. They don't pay taxes. They live 3 or more families to an apartment. In short all illegals regardless of race are criminals and deserve to be punished. Anyone who facilitates them are equally criminal as far as I am concerned. As I said before. I hope some illegals take your livelihood away. Then perhaps you will get a clue.
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Old 11-07-2008, 12:27 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,689,216 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Study after study has shown that immigrants take far less than what they contribute to the economy. Both Political parties have endorsed Immigration reform for that same economic reason. Laws change with time. During Prohibition it was illegal to drink alcohol, afterwards it became legal. As far as Immigration laws are concerned, they will eventually change soon. The only laws you should be concerned about are the universal laws that will save the spirit, not temporary man-made laws.
Please post links to said studies.
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,064,818 times
Reputation: 3717
Talking Ha ha not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by truthspeak View Post
When? You come off as a delusional manifest destiny believing American.
Now where did you lose your sense of humor? Must be here somewhere....

sailordave: re your post: Perhaps one of the reasons our attention is so focused on our southern border is the number of armed robberies and murders that happen [quote]

truthspeak, that's not a funny sitch, rather it's realistic, and his post was right on!

Last edited by rifleman; 11-09-2008 at 09:38 PM.. Reason: typos, clarity
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Old 11-09-2008, 09:54 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,064,818 times
Reputation: 3717
Exclamation Is this your justification? Oh god...

Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Living here in Houston not very far from lots and lots of immigrants (legal-Illegal) has made my life a lot easier. I have a 20 year old car and I know several mechanics who may or may not be legal but they are excellent mechanics. They cost me one tenth of what I would have to pay the dealer. I have had other immigrants help me fix my roof, place tile on the first floor of my house, and again it has help me save lots of money. I like my money with me, not to be thrown away by the Gvt. I frequent lots of restaurants and generally a good meal runs me about $10. I do notice that the people washing dishes and doing all kinds of menial work inside are immigrants. If it wasn't for them I would probably be paying $50. If the restaurant employed US citizens they would very likely be be asking for paid vacation, $15 per hour min. and be ready to sue the owner. Life is really good here in Houston. (for me and the immigrants).
This is precisely the sort of misguided, dangerous and selfish thinking that has promoted the current untenable situation. Getting more from your personla income is admirable, but at the expense of the social fabric of your country? You can get sneakers even cheaper if you go to Korea and shop in Seoul, right where the little kids make 'em. That OK too? Hardly laudible. It WILL be the near-downfall of our valuable American society, and the longer we let mass illegal immigration go on, the more of them and their families will be here, whatever their national origin, and they will try their damnest to affect Federal and State politics.

And BTW, of course we tend to focus on Hispanics. I just don't see too many Sihks sneaking across from Canada. Or Quebec'rs (tho' you can often recognize them by the English-hating snarl on their spoiled faces). Nope; here, it's illegal immigrants from Mexico and points south. As someone said, 57%; the remainder is comprised of many other nationalities combined. The Mexican government even promotes the flow by tacitly promoting the South Americans' and Mexicans' "access" to that north-south train system to get them closer to the US border. Anyone who doesn't want to see this is sadly delusional. And therefore a big part of the problem. turning the other cheek just to get your car fixed cheaper so you can also buy a new big-screen plasma TV? Sad, and embarassing that you call yourself an American!

At some future point in time, one way or another, it WILL be solved. Let's hope peacefully, but there may not be that option if the Feds don't wake up!

Last edited by rifleman; 11-09-2008 at 09:55 PM.. Reason: typos
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Old 11-09-2008, 10:03 PM
 
Location: Oklahoma(formerly SoCalif) Originally Mich,
13,387 posts, read 16,203,701 times
Reputation: 4611
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Study after study has shown that immigrants take far less than what they contribute to the economy. Both Political parties have endorsed Immigration reform for that same economic reason. Laws change with time. During Prohibition it was illegal to drink alcohol, afterwards it became legal. As far as Immigration laws are concerned, they will eventually change soon. The only laws you should be concerned about are the universal laws that will save the spirit, not temporary man-made laws.
Link up or shut up
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:08 AM
 
492 posts, read 994,583 times
Reputation: 361
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Please post links to said studies.
Sorry, I couldn't answer sooner. But here are some links and info about the benefits that legal/illegal immigrants bring to this country.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm
A crackdown in illegal immigration in 2004 caused a shortage of workers needed to bring in the lettuce crop in the Western United States, said Powell, which he said caused a $1 billion loss for the industry as many growers had to leave their fields unharvested.
"To hire Americans to do it, they would have had to raise wages so far, it wouldn't have been worth it for them," said Powell at the Independent Institute. "It caused less of a loss to leave the crop to rot."

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/

Were the elimination of illegal workers to happen, the per capita loss of income would be $1,251 in California, $$1,159 in Arizona, and $1,099 in Nevada.

http://www.freetrade.org/node/667
A 2006 study by the Kenan Institute of Private Enterprise at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found that the rapidly growing population of Hispanics in the state, many of them undocumented immigrants, had indeed imposed a net cost on the state government of $61 million, but the study also found that those same residents had increased the state's economy by $9 billion.

These are just a few I found, but there are tons of studies after studies confirming that immigration is great for the economy.
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Old 11-10-2008, 11:53 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,035,044 times
Reputation: 2873
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Sorry, I couldn't answer sooner. But here are some links and info about the benefits that legal/illegal immigrants bring to this country.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm
A crackdown in illegal immigration in 2004 caused a shortage of workers needed to bring in the lettuce crop in the Western United States, said Powell, which he said caused a $1 billion loss for the industry as many growers had to leave their fields unharvested.
"To hire Americans to do it, they would have had to raise wages so far, it wouldn't have been worth it for them," said Powell at the Independent Institute. "It caused less of a loss to leave the crop to rot."

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/

Were the elimination of illegal workers to happen, the per capita loss of income would be $1,251 in California, $$1,159 in Arizona, and $1,099 in Nevada.

http://www.freetrade.org/node/667
A 2006 study by the Kenan Institute of Private Enterprise at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found that the rapidly growing population of Hispanics in the state, many of them undocumented immigrants, had indeed imposed a net cost on the state government of $61 million, but the study also found that those same residents had increased the state's economy by $9 billion.

These are just a few I found, but there are tons of studies after studies confirming that immigration is great for the economy.
Your last two links appear to be from pro illegal sites, so I will disregard them.
Your first link is thru CNN and thus more believable.
Anyways, about the dearth of lettuce pickers (and other jobs Americans just will not do) people on this forum have actually come up with a creative way to solve it. Prisoners. Give prisoners the opportunity to work in the fields for the same rate - hell, even less if you wanted to - then the average illegal, and you would be amazed at how quickly prisoners would sign up for that duty. My own brother is currently in a fed prison in Colorado, and from speaking with him I know that boredom is the felons worst enemy. They would love to get outside the prison walls, and if they could make more then the 25 cents an hour they currently make working in the kitchen they would be thrilled. Win/win my pro illegal friend!
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Old 11-10-2008, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by cjester View Post
Sorry, I couldn't answer sooner. But here are some links and info about the benefits that legal/illegal immigrants bring to this country.

http://money.cnn.com/2006/05/01/news/economy/immigration_economy/index.htm
A crackdown in illegal immigration in 2004 caused a shortage of workers needed to bring in the lettuce crop in the Western United States, said Powell, which he said caused a $1 billion loss for the industry as many growers had to leave their fields unharvested.
"To hire Americans to do it, they would have had to raise wages so far, it wouldn't have been worth it for them," said Powell at the Independent Institute. "It caused less of a loss to leave the crop to rot."

http://www.workingimmigrants.com/

Were the elimination of illegal workers to happen, the per capita loss of income would be $1,251 in California, $$1,159 in Arizona, and $1,099 in Nevada.

http://www.freetrade.org/node/667
A 2006 study by the Kenan Institute of Private Enterprise at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill found that the rapidly growing population of Hispanics in the state, many of them undocumented immigrants, had indeed imposed a net cost on the state government of $61 million, but the study also found that those same residents had increased the state's economy by $9 billion.

These are just a few I found, but there are tons of studies after studies confirming that immigration is great for the economy.
This I will say:

If the USA is so weak and inferior that we 'need' illegal immigrants to care for us----------we do not deserve to exist as a nation.
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