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There are no accurate numbers for illegal immigrants in the United States. It is also important to remember that not all illegal immigrants come from south of our borders either. Many come from India, China, Thailand, and the former eastern bloc nations.
The estimate of 20 million is the one I see most often used and, from my studying of the topic, that I feel comfortable with.
It should also be noted that recently (the last 6 months or so), there are reports of many illegals, going BACK to their countries of origin - most notably Mexico and farther south.
The only credible study that got to 20 million is the Bear Sterns study. Why would you prefer a gedanken sort of analysis to the normal government ones?
As to returning to Mexico cite a source. Mostly wishful thinking I suspect.
You should really get together with the guy who has it going up 4 million a year. Truth likely lies between your positions.
The only credible study that got to 20 million is the Bear Sterns study. Why would you prefer a gedanken sort of analysis to the normal government ones?
As to returning to Mexico cite a source. Mostly wishful thinking I suspect.
You should really get together with the guy who has it going up 4 million a year. Truth likely lies between your positions.
Like Greatday; I live here in Arizona and the illegals (most of whom are Mestizo Hispanic) are starting to become 'thin on the ground'.
Trust me: I can usually tell a campesino from an American of 'Mexican' heritage.
Where in the US Constitution can I find this right?
It's disheartening to see such naivete...and arrogance.
Do you not see that "I'm no better than anyone" followed by "If someone chooses not to go to college" reeks of ironic elitism? Obviously, you see "the Mexicans" as a lower class people, who don't go to college. Obviously, you see college grads as a higher class people than others. Do you think everyone can go to college? Do you think a college education is simply a matter of choice?
I don't believe for one minute all the hardships you claim to have suffered. Your rhetoric indicates a naive, pampered, idealistic elitist, not a working person, as most Americans are.
FYI, immigration is a privilege, not a right.
Elitism? Naive? Pampered? Not a working American? Very judgemental don't you think? Walk a mile or two in my shoes before passing on and posting your assumptions. Do you resent people who are pampered? People who work because they want to, not because they have to?
I understand the difference between illegal and legal, but thanks for reiterating.
College is a choice, the opportunity is there, you just have to take it. Some people choose not to go, that is personal choice, or stupidity.
I'm sorry you are miserable, I think you need a hug.
For many Americans college is NOT a choice, regardless of what you may think. It was certainly harder to gain college entrance 30 years ago than what it is today.
As a blue-collar worker, my son would not be going to college if it wasn't for his own inate intelligence, there's just NO WAY I could afford to pay for it, being as the wages in my trades have been hammered by 50% over the last 20 years.
Sorry Jenn, but you DO come off as an elitist snob.
Elitism? Naive? Pampered? Not a working American? Very judgemental don't you think? Walk a mile or two in my shoes before passing on and posting your assumptions. Do you resent people who are pampered? People who work because they want to, not because they have to?
I understand the difference between illegal and legal, but thanks for reiterating.
College is a choice, the opportunity is there, you just have to take it. Some people choose not to go, that is personal choice, or stupidity.
I'm sorry you are miserable, I think you need a hug.
For the record:
We have such a glut of college grads that even a BA/BS no longer carries the cachet compared to; say, 30 years ago.
Besides: a skilled trade oftentimes demands as much training/knowledge as a college career.
Any way one cuts it: we have the right to secure our borders and expel as many illegal immigrants as we want.
Like Greatday; I live here in Arizona and the illegals (most of whom are Mestizo Hispanic) are starting to become 'thin on the ground'.
Trust me: I can usually tell a campesino from an American of 'Mexican' heritage.
I don't doubt you believe you can tell them apart. The truth of that however is an entirely different storyl
A reduction in public presence has little, if anything, to do with self deportation.
I am still awaiting GDs cite for the departing illegals. I suspect what he has is a couple of meaningless articles including the one where the featured guy was a legal leaving over the anti-hispanic prejudice.
For many Americans college is NOT a choice, regardless of what you may think. It was certainly harder to gain college entrance 30 years ago than what it is today.
As a blue-collar worker, my son would not be going to college if it wasn't for his own inate intelligence, there's just NO WAY I could afford to pay for it, being as the wages in my trades have been hammered by 50% over the last 20 years.
Sorry Jenn, but you DO come off as an elitist snob.
I second this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CJennGo
"Do you resent people who are pampered? People who work because they want to, not because they have to?"
Do I resent them? No. Does it infuriate me when someone so privileged thinks they have the right to pass judgement on the blue collar workers who work their a$$es off to provide for their family? SURE AS HELL DOES. Get off your high horse princess.
Sorry - I saw it and got distracted before I even finishing reading it and then forgot to go back...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra
So tell me which numbers I've cited are incorrect.
I know of no credible source for 4 million a year inflow. Ten years of that level would exhaust the suitable Mexican demographic and there would be no present problem. There would be no one in the suitable group left in Mexico.
Quote:
How many legitimate companies do you think there are that can hide payroll? I believe the IRS is attempting to deal with those that do. States have also enacted measures to make it less tempting to not report payroll. Many illegals interviewed in Arizona have said they are going home, not to other states. Those who are going to other states are finding the welcome mat rolled up. It's up to the states to do this as the Feds have dropped the ball AGAIN.
Virtually the entire residential construction industry and all of agriculture allow subcontracting of a type that is permissive of illegal usage. All gardening and landscaping companies. All janitorial and related companies. All smaller hotels and such. All restaurants. Virtually any small business.
Probably not more than a third of the US economy...
Quote:
So the Census Bureau, the Border Patrol and Citizenship and Immigration Services AREN'T government agencies?
They do not support your annual inflow numbers. In fact none support any inflow number.
Sorry - I saw it and got distracted before I even finishing reading it and then forgot to go back...
No problem, just don't let it happen again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
I know of no credible source for 4 million a year inflow. Ten years of that level would exhaust the suitable Mexican demographic and there would be no present problem. There would be no one in the suitable group left in Mexico.
I didn't say they were all Mexican, but the Border Patrol estimates would have to be considered credible, it is after all their balliwick, right?
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
Virtually the entire residential construction industry and all of agriculture allow subcontracting of a type that is permissive of illegal usage. All gardening and landscaping companies. All janitorial and related companies. All smaller hotels and such. All restaurants. Virtually any small business.
Probably not more than a third of the US economy...
Having lots of experience in the construction, landscaping and restaurant industries, I believe all those who are so inclined are ALREADY defrauding us, the taxpayers, so the threat of increased fraud is highly unlikely.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
They do not support your annual inflow numbers. In fact none support any inflow number.
Of course they do, all you have to do is add them up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
Nope..your logical understanding is flawed.
So long as it's not my illogical understanding I should be fine.
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