U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-19-2008, 03:53 PM
 
Location: Orange County, California
1,017 posts, read 2,542,178 times
Reputation: 461

Advertisements

First off, I'm not talking illegal immigration here, this is strictly legal immigration I'm curious about.

Do you have a rivalry (Immigrated Mexicans vs. Americans with Mexican heritage)? Why?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-19-2008, 04:18 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,145 posts, read 35,074,470 times
Reputation: 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabolissa View Post
First off, I'm not talking illegal immigration here, this is strictly legal immigration I'm curious about.

Do you have a rivalry (Immigrated Mexicans vs. Americans with Mexican heritage)? Why?
A person born in the USA is an American..........whether his/her parents are here legally or not.

Likewise: a person born in Mexico is a Mexican--------again; whether his/her parents are SOB legally or not.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 04:19 PM
 
8,971 posts, read 13,992,089 times
Reputation: 2975
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabolissa View Post
First off, I'm not talking illegal immigration here, this is strictly legal immigration I'm curious about.

Do you have a rivalry (Immigrated Mexicans vs. Americans with Mexican heritage)? Why?
Having many relatives of Mexican descent, and of various 'times in country' from recent immigrants back to those who were here in California before the 'gringos' came (I live near you), I can assure you that Mexican-Americans in a more relaxed era (before the current 'uproar') made PLENTY of references about the "wets" taking their jobs, their strange ways, etc etc...just as any immigrant group makes fun of its own "newbies"..some of it was serious 'grumbling', most of it in a sort of 'joking' manner.

Recall that Cesar Chavez (certainly a guy of Mexican descent) loved his culture and his people...but spoke out often against illegal immigration. He knew as well as anyone that these 'new guys' (illegals) were a direct threat to the wages of "his" guys (unionized farm workers).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 04:19 PM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,112,872 times
Reputation: 766
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
A person born in the USA is an American..........whether his/her parents are here legally or not.

Likewise: a person born in Mexico is a Mexican--------again; whether his/her parents are SOB legally or not.
Of course you are correct. I am so sick of the TROLLS that keep being allowed to start trouble in this forum. Thanks for reporting that other one in the other thread for name calling.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 04:22 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,145 posts, read 35,074,470 times
Reputation: 3764
Quote:
Originally Posted by Anonymous Political Junky View Post
Of course you are correct. I am so sick of the TROLLS that keep being allowed to start trouble in this forum. Thanks for reporting that other one in the other thread for name calling.
YVW there, sir.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 04:52 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 10,597,791 times
Reputation: 2227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
A person born in the USA is an American..........whether his/her parents are here legally or not.

Likewise: a person born in Mexico is a Mexican--------again; whether his/her parents are SOB legally or not.
not really. a person born in the USA is a US citizen. a person born in mexico to foreign parents is mexican. and a person born on foreign land to mexicans is mexican.

and all mexicans and bolivians and canadiens are american.

the distinction would be north american, and funny enough, mexicans are north american as well.

as to the OP's question. the mexicans i know. legal, foreign, 3rd generation, dont harbor any animosity towards other mexicans. i dont think a rivalry exists.

from what i have seen it might have more to do with nationalism. mexicans v. salvadorans. guatemalans v. nicaraguans.

but even then that is not really widespread.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 05:06 PM
 
Location: Orange County, California
1,017 posts, read 2,542,178 times
Reputation: 461
What are you talking about with the troll reference???
I'm referring to Americans with Mexican heritage looking down on the newly immigrated and those same Mexicans looking down on the American borns (1st or 2nd generation). To be honest, even though I'm a CA native, until I returned from living in Mexico with my Mexican husband and daughter, I never knew of this rivalry. Many "Chicanos" (for lack of a better term) get frustrated with new immigrants. Many Mexican immigrants feel that the U.S. Mexicans don't have a sense of the "real" Mexican culture/language, etc.
I was just wondering if anyone else had these experiences... Why get all upset about it?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 05:22 PM
 
8,971 posts, read 13,992,089 times
Reputation: 2975
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabolissa View Post
What are you talking about with the troll reference???
I'm referring to Americans with Mexican heritage looking down on the newly immigrated and those same Mexicans looking down on the American borns (1st or 2nd generation). To be honest, even though I'm a CA native, until I returned from living in Mexico with my Mexican husband and daughter, I never knew of this rivalry. Many "Chicanos" (for lack of a better term) get frustrated with new immigrants. Many Mexican immigrants feel that the U.S. Mexicans don't have a sense of the "real" Mexican culture/language, etc.
I was just wondering if anyone else had these experiences... Why get all upset about it?

Once again, I've seen all this happen, and more. Mexican-Americans making jokes about Mexicans and the culture.....Mexicans 'scolding' Mexican-Americans who don't understand Spanish....it occurs in ALL groups as well....the "new" arrivals get teased by those who came first, because they have trouble assimilating.....and the "new guys" hinting that the American-born have "lost their culture".
Happens in ALL countries where immigration occurs..

"American" culture...or at least its language...are supposedly based on that of England...right? Yet don't we English-speaking Americans (wherever our roots lie) make fun of English newcomers, in a good-natured way? They "talk funny", they "do things the hard way", they "eat strange foods", etc etc etc.

The same thing occurs w/Mexican-Americans...MOST of it good-natured.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 06:05 PM
 
47,578 posts, read 55,204,732 times
Reputation: 22053
Quote:
Originally Posted by cabolissa View Post
What are you talking about with the troll reference???
I'm referring to Americans with Mexican heritage looking down on the newly immigrated and those same Mexicans looking down on the American borns (1st or 2nd generation). To be honest, even though I'm a CA native, until I returned from living in Mexico with my Mexican husband and daughter, I never knew of this rivalry. Many "Chicanos" (for lack of a better term) get frustrated with new immigrants. Many Mexican immigrants feel that the U.S. Mexicans don't have a sense of the "real" Mexican culture/language, etc.
I was just wondering if anyone else had these experiences... Why get all upset about it?
I do think you're right about that. I know of Chicanos who have never been to Mexico, their parents have never been there, their grandparents have never been there. They don't feel "at home" any more than another American does -- sometimes less because maybe they expect that they should feel at home there and don't.

Even right here on the border, the kids in school will call a kid a "wet" or say things like "did you just cross over the border?" to imply the other kid is acting very naive or gullible.

Gang fights here are often between the kids who are more American versus the ones who have close ties with Mexico.

You don't call American kids with Spanish surnames "Mexicans" unless they actually are because they don't like it. There are people of SW hispanic descent who do not view themselves as Mexican at all, they never travel there, often they speak primarily English and their families have long roots in the USA.

I hear people complain all the time how someone from Mexico tried to insult them by saying they should be ashamed for not speaking better Spanish or that they should be ashamed for losing their roots -- but their roots are here and they didn't lose them. Assumptions can be made wrongly from all sides.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-19-2008, 06:16 PM
 
47,578 posts, read 55,204,732 times
Reputation: 22053
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Once again, I've seen all this happen, and more. Mexican-Americans making jokes about Mexicans and the culture.....Mexicans 'scolding' Mexican-Americans who don't understand Spanish....it occurs in ALL groups as well....the "new" arrivals get teased by those who came first, because they have trouble assimilating.....and the "new guys" hinting that the American-born have "lost their culture".
Happens in ALL countries where immigration occurs..

"American" culture...or at least its language...are supposedly based on that of England...right? Yet don't we English-speaking Americans (wherever our roots lie) make fun of English newcomers, in a good-natured way? They "talk funny", they "do things the hard way", they "eat strange foods", etc etc etc.

The same thing occurs w/Mexican-Americans...MOST of it good-natured.
That's what I see all the time, one guy who isn't from Juarez but from a small town to the south of Juarez said when he came here in high school, the English speaking American kids were not a problem to him, they basically didn't "see" him, they ignored him, left him alone.

He was picked on he said most of all by those who also moved from Mexico and they are the ones that called him "juareño" which is supposed to be insulting and he said the ones that called him that most were actually juareños themselves because they came from Juarez while he didn't.

I have a neighbor who constantly tells me that Oscar de la Hoya is NOT Mexican and it really annoys him that he pretends to be. This guy is from Mexico and he says that whatever de la Hoya is, he's not Mexican. I asked him what he thinks he is, and he says he's an American or he's a Chicano, or whatever but he's no Mexican no matter how much he carries around the Mexican flag or pretends to be a Mexican.

So it seems that some want everyone to keep on believing they are Mexican, others don't, that once they are born here, they are not that anymore. Sometimes they're damned if they do, damned if they don't.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2017, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32 - Top