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Old 12-21-2008, 04:52 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
So there is no chance that the guy from Honduras that got injusred was one of the 127,000 Hondurans who were issued perfectly LEGAL Visas to either work or stydy in the United States in 2007? Or one of the roughly 100,000 that have been issued such legal visas EVERY year since 2000? Yeah, I guess there's no chance that one of that MILLION people was injured.
It's people who think like you that give the pro illegal crowd reason to say that the anti illegal immigration crowd is racist & bigoted. Your brand of ignorance really doesn't help anyone.
People like me? You assume, incorrectly that I never considered the fact that the victim could have been here on a visa. In doing so, you and several others automatically charged and convicted me as being a racist and a bigot. IMHO your insults and assumptions merit an apology. I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do the right thing though.

Although you would like to paint me with the broad brush of racism, to do so is not only an unfair assumption but pretty much confirms that as opposed to accepting at face value, obvious, legitimate reasons that I have stated repeatedly as to why I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, I understand that it makes you and your ilk feel better to simply dismiss me, and those of us who are against the invasion of this country as bigots.

First and foremost, for a number of years I worked as a legal investigations coordinator (gathering facts and evidence for trial preparation) and currently work as a CI. As someone who has conducted investigations for more than 2 decades I have been trained to read between the lines and gather evidence in order to do case analysis, which leads to conclusions. In this case the fact that it was stated that the man's friend was "from Honduras" as opposed to simply stating the guy was simply "a friend" who worked on the bridge, that statement automatically sent up red flags. I make no apologies for reading between the lines and stating what I suspected to be true. Those of us who have followed this illegal alien crisis for a number of years are aware that until recently, the MSM deliberately omitted any mention of the illegal alien status of those in this country and never mentioned the obvious unless the circumstances forced them to do so.

Had I been wrong, I would have apologized, not because I am a racist (because I'm not) but simply because the evidence would not have confirmed my suspicions.

That being said my suspicions were correct:

Quote:
The son of the construction worker killed at the Atlanta Botanical Garden Friday said his father’s body will be shipped to his village in Mexico for burial as soon as the family can make arrangements.

*************************************************

Two other injured men taken to Atlanta Medical Center also were discharged Friday night, according to the nursing administrator there. Atlanta-based Hardin Construction has not released the names of the injured.
According to relatives at Grady hospital Friday, some of the injured workers were from Mexico or Honduras and were sending money to their families left behind.
Barkley Russell, spokeswoman for Hardin, said not all the injured workers were Hispanic or Latino. She said Hardin Construction did not know the immigration status of those who were. “It’s the subcontractors’ responsibility to check [on citizenship],” she said.

On Saturday, there was little activity around the site visible from Piedmont Road.
Russell said company officials visited the site, trying to sort through what caused the walkway to collapse. Chupin and all the injured men were working for subcontractors of Hardin. The injuries ranged from bruises to spine and brain trauma. A preliminary autopsy by the Fulton County Medical Examiner indicated Chupin died of blunt force injuries.
Hardin released a statement early Saturday, saying it was cooperating with federal investigators. It said its record of worker injuries was “dramatically below the national average.” The company said all subcontractors on the project were required to attend weekly safety meetings led by Hardin staff.
Body of man killed in Botanical Garden accident to be shipped to Mexico | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/gwinnett/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/12/20/satbotanical_1221.html - broken link)
The defensive posturing courtesy of the construction company is a disgustingly pathetic attempt to remove themselves from any additional financial and federal litigious responsibility. They obviously realize that they can be charged with, prosecuted and heavily fined for, knowingly and willfully hiring illegal aliens.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 12-21-2008 at 06:13 AM..

 
Old 12-21-2008, 05:23 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,792,255 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
People like me? You assume, incorrectly that I never considered the fact that the victim could have been here on a visa. In doing so you and several others automatically charged and convicted me as being a racist and a bigot. IMHO your insults and assumptions merit an apology.

Although you would like to paint me with the broad brush of racism, to do so is not only an unfair assumption but pretty much confirms that as opposed to accepting at face value, obvious legitimate reasons that I have stated repeatedly as to why I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, it makes you feel better to simply dismiss me and others as bigots. First and foremost, for a number of years I worked as a legal investigations coordinator (gathering facts and evidence for trial preparation) and currently work as a CI. As someone who has conducted investigations for more than 2 decades I have been trained to read between the lines and gather evidence in order to do case analysis, which leads to conclusions. In this case the fact that it was stated that the man's friend was "from Honduras" as opposed to simply stating the guy was simply "a friend" who worked on the bridge, that statement automatically sent up red flags. I make no apologies for reading between the lines and stating what I suspected to be true. Those of us who have followed this illegal alien crisis for a number of years are aware that until recently, the MSM deliberately omitted any mention of the illegal alien status of those in this country and never mentioned the obvious unless the circumstances forced them to do so.

Had I been wrong, I would have apologized, not because I am a racist (because I'm not) but simply because the evidence would not have confirmed my suspicions.

That being said my suspicions were correct:
Hmm let me see, where do you expect an immigrant worker from mexico to be buried at? Besides, weren't we talking about the guy from honduras? Still, nothing in the update story you posted confirms what your initial accusations were.

Last edited by blacknight04; 12-21-2008 at 05:31 AM..
 
Old 12-21-2008, 07:34 AM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,897,199 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
People like me? You assume, incorrectly that I never considered the fact that the victim could have been here on a visa. In doing so, you and several others automatically charged and convicted me as being a racist and a bigot. IMHO your insults and assumptions merit an apology. I won't hold my breath waiting for you to do the right thing though.

Although you would like to paint me with the broad brush of racism, to do so is not only an unfair assumption but pretty much confirms that as opposed to accepting at face value, obvious, legitimate reasons that I have stated repeatedly as to why I am against ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION, I understand that it makes you and your ilk feel better to simply dismiss me, and those of us who are against the invasion of this country as bigots.

First and foremost, for a number of years I worked as a legal investigations coordinator (gathering facts and evidence for trial preparation) and currently work as a CI. As someone who has conducted investigations for more than 2 decades I have been trained to read between the lines and gather evidence in order to do case analysis, which leads to conclusions. In this case the fact that it was stated that the man's friend was "from Honduras" as opposed to simply stating the guy was simply "a friend" who worked on the bridge, that statement automatically sent up red flags. I make no apologies for reading between the lines and stating what I suspected to be true. Those of us who have followed this illegal alien crisis for a number of years are aware that until recently, the MSM deliberately omitted any mention of the illegal alien status of those in this country and never mentioned the obvious unless the circumstances forced them to do so.

Had I been wrong, I would have apologized, not because I am a racist (because I'm not) but simply because the evidence would not have confirmed my suspicions.

That being said my suspicions were correct:

The defensive posturing courtesy of the construction company is a disgustingly pathetic attempt to remove themselves from any additional financial and federal litigious responsibility. They obviously realize that they can be charged with, prosecuted and heavily fined for, knowingly and willfully hiring illegal aliens.
I am very anti illegal immigration, and never said anything about your stance as I have never seen it before this thread. And in this thread, you ASSUMED, without any proof of the fact, or even any suggestion of it, that the injured Honduran was here illegally. There is no basis for that assumption, and making it does no one any good at all.
And for all that you bold a bunch of sentences in that report, you stll haven't managed to show any evidence of him being here ilegally.
Might you turn out to be right about his status? Sure. But a broken clock is right twice a day as well. I'd prefer to trust a working one.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 07:52 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
I am very anti illegal immigration, and never said anything about your stance as I have never seen it before this thread. And in this thread, you ASSUMED, without any proof of the fact, or even any suggestion of it, that the injured Honduran was here illegally. There is no basis for that assumption, and making it does no one any good at all.
And for all that you bold a bunch of sentences in that report, you stll haven't managed to show any evidence of him being here ilegally.
Might you turn out to be right about his status? Sure. But a broken clock is right twice a day as well. I'd prefer to trust a working one.
You are entitled to your opinion of me and what I stated. I earn a living preparing evidence for prosecution, which in some cases consists of reading between the lines. In this case they are deliberately blurred to cover up illegalities. Whether the MSM or the company actually comes out today or next year and states the fact that someone knowingly and willingly hired illegals to work on that bridge in no way obfuscates their criminal activity and their responsibility in this tragedy. It is simply the reality that there are many in this society who continue to hire cheap illegal alien labor and attempt to back pedal when they are caught red handed, especially when it results in the loss of lives, the settlement of lawsuits, and the payment of fines that result from federal prosecution. It would have cost them far less if they had simply obeyed the law. Everyone involved in this tragedy (including the illegal alien who died and those who were injured) gambled and they lost. If the obviously shoddy construction had been completed by those skirting the laws to save a few dollars, many more innocent lives would have been lost as well.

Unlike the media who in many cases avoid stating the obvious as well as those (in this case the city of Atlanta and the construction company) who wish to avoid stating the obvious, I stated what was obvious to me. Whether you accept my explanation or not matters not to me. Like it or not, the proof of what I originally stated is in the pudding. Eventually, the evidence that will come forth in this investigation will bare the fruits of my statement.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 07:56 AM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,897,199 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
You are entitled to your opinion of me and what I stated. I earn a living preparing evidence for prosecution, which in some cases consists of reading between the lines. In this case they are deliberately blurred to cover up illegalities. Whether the MSM or the company actually comes out today or next year and states the fact that someone knowingly and willingly hired illegals to work on that bridge in no way obfuscates their criminal activity and their responsibility in this tragedy. It is simply the reality that there are many in this society who continue to hire cheap illegal alien labor and attempt to back pedal when they are caught red handed, especially when it results in the loss of lives, the settlement of lawsuits, and the payment of fines that result from federal prosecution. It would have cost them far less if they had simply obeyed the law. Everyone involved in this tragedy (including the illegal alien who died and those who were injured) gambled and they loss.

Unlike the media who in many cases avoid stating the obvious as well as those (in this case the city of Atlanta and the construction company) who wish to avoid stating the obvious, I stated what was obvious to me. Whether you accept my explanation or not matters not to me. Like it or not, the proof of what I originally stated is in the pudding.
I agree with pretty much every thing in yoru post about the consequences of hiring illegal workers. And hopefully without looking like I want to start a fight, I'd like for you to show me what, in that first story, indicated to you that this worker is illegal, that I somehow missed.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 08:11 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
I agree with pretty much every thing in yoru post about the consequences of hiring illegal workers. And hopefully without looking like I want to start a fight, I'd like for you to show me what, in that first story, indicated to you that this worker is illegal, that I somehow missed.
You only missed it because you are not reading between the lines. Until all of the evidence has been reviewed, a thorough investigation is completed and a detailed report is prepared, the construction company, nor city officials are going to come out and state anything that may incriminate them. I'm sure the first thing they did was contact legal counsel.

From my perspective all of the statements that I bolded are indicative that those who died and many who were injured were illegal aliens. The contractor who hired them will also be charged and sued by the federal government as a third party in any forthcoming litigation. Notice that the city immediately placed the blame on the contractor while denying any prior knowledge that any of the workers were illegal. From a legal perspective, the city is trying to avoid federal prosecution and fines in this regard, by claiming to have no prior knowledge and placing the burden of proof on the federal government to disprove that the construction company bares all of the responsibility. I've seen it many times and in many cases. Eventually, when all of the hoopla dies down, and the prosecution is completed, the details will be publicized. I will try to follow up on the details and post them for you as they emerge.


Quote:
The son of the construction worker killed at the Atlanta Botanical Garden Friday said his father’s body will be shipped to his village in Mexico for burial as soon as the family can make arrangements.
Quote:

*************************************************

Two other injured men taken to Atlanta Medical Center also were discharged Friday night, according to the nursing administrator there. Atlanta-based Hardin Construction has not released the names of the injured.
According to relatives at Grady hospital Friday, some of the injured workers were from Mexico or Honduras and were sending money to their families left behind.
Barkley Russell, spokeswoman for Hardin, said not all the injured workers were Hispanic or Latino. She said Hardin Construction did not know the immigration status of those who were. “It’s the subcontractors’ responsibility to check [on citizenship],” she said.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 12-21-2008 at 08:42 AM..
 
Old 12-21-2008, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,844 posts, read 14,519,804 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
The story didn't make any mention of illegal immigrants.
They have been interviewing the family of the killed worker here on Atlanta TV news, nonstop since the accident. It is very evident that he and his sons are here illegally. They were discussing the deceased man's wife and daughters who are still in Mexico, and how he'll never see them again. There were interviews with other workers involved, and most couldn't speak enough English to conduct an interview. To quote Dylan..."you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

I feel for them as humans and for their injuries, but they and the company need to answer for their status.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 08:25 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
They have been interviewing the family of the killed worker here on Atlanta TV news, nonstop since the accident. It is very evident that he and his sons are here illegally. They were discussing the deceased man's wife and daughters who are still in Mexico, and how he'll never see them again. There were interviews with other workers involved, and most couldn't speak enough English to conduct an interview. To quote Dylan..."you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

I feel for them as humans and for their injuries, but they and the company need to answer for their status.
Thank you for that confirmation Neil. It was obvious to me while reading the article that some if not all of those working on that bridge were indeed illegal aliens. The city of Atlanta realized immediately that they are in big trouble which is why they instantly blamed the contractor as being the party responsible for checking the status of their workers. Additionally, the construction company rushed to deny that all of the construction workers were hispanic (and probably non English speaking) hoping it would divert any suspicions that they willfully and knowingly targeted and hired illegal aliens for the job.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 12-21-2008 at 08:35 AM..
 
Old 12-21-2008, 08:33 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,792,255 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
They have been interviewing the family of the killed worker here on Atlanta TV news, nonstop since the accident. It is very evident that he and his sons are here illegally. They were discussing the deceased man's wife and daughters who are still in Mexico, and how he'll never see them again. There were interviews with other workers involved, and most couldn't speak enough English to conduct an interview. To quote Dylan..."you don't need a weatherman to know which way the wind blows."

I feel for them as humans and for their injuries, but they and the company need to answer for their status.
Quote:
Mike Alsip, a forensic investigator with the Fulton County Medical Examiner's Office, identified the man killed as Angel Chupin, 66, of Marietta.
Quote:
The son of the construction worker killed at the Atlanta Botanical Garden Friday said his fatherís body will be shipped to his village in Mexico for burial as soon as the family can make arrangements.
Aquiles Chupin, 36, told the Atlanta Journal-Constitution that his father, Angel Chupin, 66, was hit with something ó he didnít know what ó and died instantly when a portion of a 40-foot-high walkway collapsed.

(http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/12/20/botanical_1220_CC15_1.html - broken link)


Chupin said the family hoped to get their fatherís body yesterday and hold a small religious ceremony. Then the body would be shipped to Juchitan, in the state of Guerrero, near the Pacific coast south of Acapulco. Angel Chupin had six daughters and four sons. He lived in Marietta, as did four of the daughters and two sons. The elder Chupinís wife and the rest of the family lived in Juchitan. Aquiles Chupin, who also works in construction, said his father first came to Atlanta in the mid-1990s.
Body of man killed in Botanical Garden accident to be shipped to Mexico | ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/content/metro/atlanta/stories/2008/12/20/satbotanical_1221.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newsta b&imw=Y - broken link)

I still don't see how you can say they are clearly illegal immigrants. You don't need to speak english to qualify for work visas etc.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 08:55 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,844 posts, read 14,519,804 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post

I still don't see how you can say they are clearly illegal immigrants. You don't need to speak english to qualify for work visas etc.
No..you're correct that I don't "know" they are illegal, but it's not likely that they are legal. It was very common in the Atlanta area, especially back in the 90's, for construction companies to hire illegal Mexicans. Most of the new homes in the area were constructed by Mexican and other latin American "immigrants"....most of whom are illegal.

The government knows they are illegal, and the Cobb County Sheriff has made it a point to deport all those that are booked into his jail, due to the huge influx in recent years to keep the construction industry going.

Some of you folks are just too naive and want to always look through your rose colored glasses.

02-12-07 Sheriff Signs Agreement with ICE (http://www.cobbsheriff.org/news/02-12-07%20ICE%20MOU%20Final.htm - broken link)

Atlanta the next to OK 'sanctuary' for illegal aliens? (Source is the Marietta Daily Journal...our local newspaper in Cobb County - suburban Atlanta)
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