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Old 12-21-2008, 09:07 AM
 
32 posts, read 84,270 times
Reputation: 21

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I did want to make a point about the website the original poster made reference about:

Most Americans cannot understand the Latino life. I am a white male. I take pictures of homes throughout the barrios of Southeast Los Angeles County. Latinos are just like White or Black or Asian people. They want good schools, safe neighborhoods, good paying jobs, and for their families to be happy. I think alot of people on the immigration forum are terribly mistaken that alot of brown skin people are illegal. Maybe some of the construction workers were illegal, but we can't say there's brown people, there has to be one whose illegal. I think Americans are going to realize that their are numerous legal Latinos in America, and even if there are some illegal most of them are good natured people just like most Americans. Many illegal immigrants want the same thing that legal immigrants want as well, as what I mentioned above.

I think if some people were to connect more in Latino neighborhoods they would generally get an appreciation for culture diversity, and see that more are probably American Latino citizens. Even if there are illegal immigrants, they want the same thing that Americans and legal immigrants want.

 
Old 12-21-2008, 09:22 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,844 posts, read 14,524,175 times
Reputation: 3484
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
Most Americans cannot understand the Latino life.
Nor do we need to, any more than the French life, German life or Saudi life or Japanese life.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
Latinos are just like White or Black or Asian people. They want good schools, safe neighborhoods, good paying jobs, and for their families to be happy.
And that's great, except it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they have broken the law by coming to and staying in the US. Your motive for committing a crime doesn't excuse your crime. Feel good stories may tug heart strings, but they're not an excuse for illegal activity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
I think alot of people on the immigration forum are terribly mistaken that alot of brown skin people are illegal. Maybe some of the construction workers were illegal, but we can't say there's brown people, there has to be one whose illegal.
It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with the fact that in the Atlanta area, it's a documented fact that the federal authorities have looked the other way as hundreds of thousands of Mexicans have come to Atlanta to work in the construction industry. Atlanta has experienced a huge boom over the last 15 years, and the industry needed workers. Many looked the other way at the fact that they were illegal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
I think Americans are going to realize that their are numerous legal Latinos in America, and even if there are some illegal most of them are good natured people just like most Americans. Many illegal immigrants want the same thing that legal immigrants want as well, as what I mentioned above.
Many Latinos may be legal, but that's not what's being discussed here. Again, it doesn't make a rat's behind of difference what they want or if their motives are good or bad. People that break the law and come here illegally are criminals...period. My mother and other family waited in line and came here by following the rules. That's the only way to do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
I think if some people were to connect more in Latino neighborhoods they would generally get an appreciation for culture diversity, and see that more are probably American Latino citizens. Even if there are illegal immigrants, they want the same thing that Americans and legal immigrants want.
Again with same mantra....it doesn't matter what THEY want. Their wants and desires are meaningless and have no bearing. Only Americans get to decide who can come to our country and what the rules are that need to be followed. You either abide by those or you're a criminal.

This is also not just a "latino" problem. There are illegals here from other places, but they aren't as numerous or easy to identify. The number of illegal Irish in Boston is pretty high, for example.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 09:44 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,901,976 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Nor do we need to, any more than the French life, German life or Saudi life or Japanese life.



And that's great, except it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they have broken the law by coming to and staying in the US. Your motive for committing a crime doesn't excuse your crime. Feel good stories may tug heart strings, but they're not an excuse for illegal activity.



It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with the fact that in the Atlanta area, it's a documented fact that the federal authorities have looked the other way as hundreds of thousands of Mexicans have come to Atlanta to work in the construction industry. Atlanta has experienced a huge boom over the last 15 years, and the industry needed workers. Many looked the other way at the fact that they were illegal.



Many Latinos may be legal, but that's not what's being discussed here. Again, it doesn't make a rat's behind of difference what they want or if their motives are good or bad. People that break the law and come here illegally are criminals...period. My mother and other family waited in line and came here by following the rules. That's the only way to do it.



Again with same mantra....it doesn't matter what THEY want. Their wants and desires are meaningless and have no bearing. Only Americans get to decide who can come to our country and what the rules are that need to be followed. You either abide by those or you're a criminal.

This is also not just a "latino" problem. There are illegals here from other places, but they aren't as numerous or easy to identify. The number of illegal Irish in Boston is pretty high, for example.
Thank you once again, you nailed it, accurately and eloquently. The poster assumes erroneously, that those of us against this illegal alien invasion don't know any "brown people" and are unfamiliar with their culture. For the record as a Black woman, I have worked hard to overcome many racist and sexist obstacles, all while remaining in compliance with the laws of this country. I have lived with, around and experienced the cultures of many people of many races and ethnic backgrounds, from all walks of life.

That being said, the poster erroneously assumes that illegal aliens deserve special consideration and forgiveness for their lawless, demanding, arrogant and self entitled nature; all while negating the fact that there is nothing unique or different about their experiences, desires for a better life, etc.

There is a difference in terms of those who work hard at cheating and committing a multitude of crimes to achieve their goals and desires vs. those of us who are law abiding, work hard and do things within the boundaries of the law.

We all have differences, as well as our own crosses to bare. It does not excuse the criminal entry and the further criminal acts perpetrated by criminals too cowardly to stand up and demand humane treatment, jobs and financial assistance from their own government and oligarchies.

If I had the courage as a 4 year old child to march during the civil rights movement to demand my rights as a citizen, surely millions of illegal alien foreigners can muster up some courage to do the same, IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

After all they have no problem feeling emboldened to march down American streets, wave the mexican rag and demand everything that they have no right or entitlement to. They are brave enough to: enter this country illegally, steal identities and anything else not nailed down, including but not limited to: jobs, taxpayer funded benefits and social services courtesy of American citizens, yet they don't seem to have the courage to fight for what they are entitled to in their OWN COUNTRIES.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 12-21-2008 at 10:48 AM..
 
Old 12-21-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
I did want to make a point about the website the original poster made reference about:

Most Americans cannot understand the Latino life. I am a white male. I take pictures of homes throughout the barrios of Southeast Los Angeles County. Latinos are just like White or Black or Asian people. They want good schools, safe neighborhoods, good paying jobs, and for their families to be happy. I think alot of people on the immigration forum are terribly mistaken that alot of brown skin people are illegal. Maybe some of the construction workers were illegal, but we can't say there's brown people, there has to be one whose illegal. I think Americans are going to realize that their are numerous legal Latinos in America, and even if there are some illegal most of them are good natured people just like most Americans. Many illegal immigrants want the same thing that legal immigrants want as well, as what I mentioned above.

I think if some people were to connect more in Latino neighborhoods they would generally get an appreciation for culture diversity, and see that more are probably American Latino citizens. Even if there are illegal immigrants, they want the same thing that Americans and legal immigrants want.
The fact that many illegals are good natured and hard working hardly absolves them for their crimes. The fact is that many are in fact here illegally and as such need to be deported.
I am siding with Jdubs and Neil on this Jdubs as shown that it is probible that those involved are illegals. The construction comapany is trying to hide behind the subcontractors. Pretty sure they should know who is working on the job sight.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:07 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,901,976 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The fact that many illegals are good natured and hard working hardly absolves them for their crimes. The fact is that many are in fact here illegally and as such need to be deported.
I am siding with Jdubs and Neil on this Jdubs as shown that it is probible that those involved are illegals. The construction comapany is trying to hide behind the subcontractors. Pretty sure they should know who is working on the job sight.
Of course they knew. I have no doubt that the city of Atlanta was fully aware of who was working on that bridge but chose to look the other way in order to save a few dollars. From the city to the contractors, sub-contractors and the illegal aliens, they are all duplicitous in what has resulted in the death and injury of the workers, including the workers themselves. While it is a blessing in disguise that the bridge collapsed and killed only a few during the construction stages as opposed to hundreds of innocent people who might have crossed that bridge after it was completed, it does not absolve anyone who participated in this greedy, deliberately deceptive and fraudulent use of federal tax dollars and denigration of public trust.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:16 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,640,026 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Nor do we need to, any more than the French life, German life or Saudi life or Japanese life.



And that's great, except it has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not they have broken the law by coming to and staying in the US. Your motive for committing a crime doesn't excuse your crime. Feel good stories may tug heart strings, but they're not an excuse for illegal activity.



It has nothing to do with skin color. It has to do with the fact that in the Atlanta area, it's a documented fact that the federal authorities have looked the other way as hundreds of thousands of Mexicans have come to Atlanta to work in the construction industry. Atlanta has experienced a huge boom over the last 15 years, and the industry needed workers. Many looked the other way at the fact that they were illegal.



Many Latinos may be legal, but that's not what's being discussed here. Again, it doesn't make a rat's behind of difference what they want or if their motives are good or bad. People that break the law and come here illegally are criminals...period. My mother and other family waited in line and came here by following the rules. That's the only way to do it.



Again with same mantra....it doesn't matter what THEY want. Their wants and desires are meaningless and have no bearing. Only Americans get to decide who can come to our country and what the rules are that need to be followed. You either abide by those or you're a criminal.

This is also not just a "latino" problem. There are illegals here from other places, but they aren't as numerous or easy to identify. The number of illegal Irish in Boston is pretty high, for example.
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Thank you once again, you nailed it, accurately and eloquently. The poster assumes erroneously, that those of us against this illegal alien invasion don't know any "brown people" and are unfamiliar with their culture. For the record as a Black woman, I have worked hard to overcome many racist and sexist obstacles, all while remaining in compliance with the laws of this country. I have lived with, around and experienced the cultures of many people of many races and ethnic backgrounds, from all walks of life.

That being said, the poster erroneously assumes that illegal aliens deserve special consideration and forgiveness for their lawless, demanding, arrogant and self entitled nature; all while negating the fact that there is nothing unique or different about their experiences, desires for a better life, etc.

There is a difference in terms of those who work hard at cheating and committing a multitude of crimes to achieve their goals and desires vs. those of us who are law abiding, work hard and do things within the boundaries of the law.

We all have differences, as well as our own crosses to bare. It does not excuse the criminal entry and the further criminal acts perpetrated by criminals too cowardly to stand up and demand humane treatment, jobs and financial assistance from their own government and oligarchies.

If I had the courage as a 4 year old child to march during the civil rights movement to demand my rights as a citizen, surely millions of illegal alien foreigners can muster up some courage to do the same, IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES.

After all they have no problem feeling emboldened to march down American streets, wave the mexican rag and demand everything that they have no right or entitlement to. They are brave enough to: enter this country illegally, steal identities and anything else not nailed down, including but not limited to: jobs, taxpayer funded benefits and social services courtesy of American citizens, yet they don't seem to have the courage to fight for what they are entitled to in their OWN COUNTRIES.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
The fact that many illegals are good natured and hard working hardly absolves them for their crimes. The fact is that many are in fact here illegally and as such need to be deported.
I am siding with Jdubs and Neil on this Jdubs as shown that it is probible that those involved are illegals. The construction comapany is trying to hide behind the subcontractors. Pretty sure they should know who is working on the job sight.
As they say:

Legal immigrants I welcome here irrespective of race/ethnicity

illegal aliens need to leave post haste--------or; risk having their assets seized then thrown out forcibly. It is their choice.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Martinsville, NJ
6,159 posts, read 10,901,813 times
Reputation: 3939
Quote:
Originally Posted by SouthwestDriver View Post
<SNIP>
and even if there are some illegal most of them are good natured people just like most Americans. Many illegal immigrants want the same thing that legal immigrants want as well, as what I mentioned above.

I think if some people were to connect more in Latino neighborhoods they would generally get an appreciation for culture diversity, and see that more are probably American Latino citizens. Even if there are illegal immigrants, they want the same thing that Americans and legal immigrants want.
Who cares?
Seriously, so what if they want the same thing everyone else wants? There are rules for coming into our country. Wanting to be here does not give one the right to break the rules, no matter how badly one wants to come here. I firmly believe that breaking our laws & coming into the country ILLEGALLY shows a complete lack of respect for our countyr, and for those who wait in line & follow the rules. When they are found, they should be deported as quickly as possible, regardless of why they came or what they wanted. I'm sure they are nice enough people, but the very first thing they did when coming here was break our laws. OUT!

That being said, I'm still not convinced that any of these people were in fact illegal. They might have been, but so far we have seen nothing other than one womans "reading between the lines" to suggest such a thing. I'll wait on that until I see some evidence.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:42 AM
 
1,368 posts, read 1,628,438 times
Reputation: 1111
I feel for the innocent pedestrians standing below the bridge.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 01:02 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,901,976 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Keegan View Post
Who cares?
Seriously, so what if they want the same thing everyone else wants? There are rules for coming into our country. Wanting to be here does not give one the right to break the rules, no matter how badly one wants to come here. I firmly believe that breaking our laws & coming into the country ILLEGALLY shows a complete lack of respect for our countyr, and for those who wait in line & follow the rules. When they are found, they should be deported as quickly as possible, regardless of why they came or what they wanted. I'm sure they are nice enough people, but the very first thing they did when coming here was break our laws. OUT!

That being said, I'm still not convinced that any of these people were in fact illegal. They might have been, but so far we have seen nothing other than one womans "reading between the lines" to suggest such a thing. I'll wait on that until I see some evidence.
I applaud the first part of your post.

However, with respect to your comments re: "one woman's opinion" this is not simply my opinion and the limited but factual information provided in the article confirms that many of those who worked on that bridge are indeed illegal aliens.

That being said, while I respect your opinion, you don't have to be a rocket scientist to connect the dots.

Here's another piece to the puzzle:

Quote:
Among patients treated at Grady, Dr. Jeffrey Salomone, Grady Hospital’s deputy chief of surgery said one had apparent liver injuries, and he noticed a lot of injuries to workers’ arms and legs.

Some of the injured, who all appeared to be construction workers, spoke only Spanish, Salomone said.
He said some told rescuers or doctors that they fell 40 feet or more to the ground.
http://idexer.com/2008/12/19/workers-only-spoke-spanish.html (broken link)
Surely, even you must realize that the average American (particularly those who work on dangerous construction sites) is required to speak at least a word or two of English.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,893,897 times
Reputation: 6517
A T S Analitical troubleshooting. Its how they figured out what happened on the apollo mission, what happened to the challenger etc. When direct evidence is absent you peel the onion. Using what few facts you have you determine most probible cause. Jdubs has done exactly that. Is it 100%? No. But it is a reasonable assumption.
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