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Old 12-21-2008, 11:20 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
With the growing violence in places such as Juarez, the poor folks in Mexico are going to be even more desperate to come here to escape the violence. Also, this violence IS spilling over into the US from what I've been reading in the LA Times (and they are considered Pro-illegal immigration by the slant of their stories). For our country's safety, we need to reinforce our borders and enforce our immigration laws as we cannot continually subsidize the hordes of illegal immigrants that are flooding our cities and overcrowding our schools and hospitals. I don't know if you live in So. Cal or not, but we are facing a crisis with our emergency rooms closing down! Believe me, I AM sympathetic towards the desperate situation that many illegals find themselves into (heck, I may even personally know a few) and many ARE hardworking folks trying to improve their lot in life. But there's a limit to how much our country can take before we collapse.
Unfortunately, this isn't just a Mexico problem. When it "spills over" into the U.S., it's more than likely someone on this side getting involved with the drug trade, and doing something they shouldn't be doing.

People act like this is just a Mexico issue. The smuggling across the border is just one part of it. You need to look at the people on this side BUYING it and distributing it to children and others getting them hooked, getting themselves rich, along with keeping the cartels in power.

The whole point of the drug trade is "spilling over into the United States". That's what it's all about.

The drug dealers aren't immigrating over here. They're crossing legally, and many of them are already here as Americans of various ethnic groups.

It can't be simplified as just the Mexicans.

 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:36 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,803 posts, read 19,574,286 times
Reputation: 35847
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Unfortunately, this isn't just a Mexico problem. When it "spills over" into the U.S., it's more than likely someone on this side getting involved with the drug trade, and doing something they shouldn't be doing.

People act like this is just a Mexico issue. The smuggling across the border is just one part of it. You need to look at the people on this side BUYING it and distributing it to children and others getting them hooked, getting themselves rich, along with keeping the cartels in power.

The whole point of the drug trade is "spilling over into the United States". That's what it's all about.

The drug dealers aren't immigrating over here. They're crossing legally, and many of them are already here as Americans of various ethnic groups.

It can't be simplified as just the Mexicans.
You only are addressing one of the many points I made. The US isn't sanctioning the drug trade and many of Mexico's police force in heavily involved so the US ain't to blame for Mexico's issues especially the kidnapping issues. Also, if we close our borders, the drugs will not be coming in from Mexico as easily as they are today now would they?

Now ... What about the issues of our emergency rooms closing and our schools failing due to overcrowdedness?
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,154 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
You only are addressing one of the many points I made. The US isn't sanctioning the drug trade and many of Mexico's police force in heavily involved so the US ain't to blame for Mexico's issues especially the kidnapping issues. Also, if we close our borders, the drugs will not be coming in from Mexico as easily as they are today now would they?

Now ... What about the issues of our emergency rooms closing and our schools failing due to overcrowdedness?
Close the borders airtight, the drugs will start coming from Canada. There is a massive demand for drugs in this country, and someone's going to get rich off it. Seal off the United States in an airtight bubble, someone's going to get rich off cooking up meth.

The U.S. throws money at the problem and hopes for it to go away.

As far as emergency rooms closing and schools failing due to overcrowding? Very good. Those are examples of issues worth discussing in regards to immigration.

Mexican drug cartels? Not so much.
 
Old 12-21-2008, 11:57 PM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,803 posts, read 19,574,286 times
Reputation: 35847
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Close the borders airtight, the drugs will start coming from Canada. There is a massive demand for drugs in this country, and someone's going to get rich off it. Seal off the United States in an airtight bubble, someone's going to get rich off cooking up meth.

The U.S. throws money at the problem and hopes for it to go away.

As far as emergency rooms closing and schools failing due to overcrowding? Very good. Those are examples of issues worth discussing in regards to immigration.

Mexican drug cartels? Not so much.
No ... The Mexican drug cartels and the escalating violence is a legitimate concern of many US citizens as we share a non-secure border with Mexico. This is a safety issue and you know it.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 12:27 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,154 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
No ... The Mexican drug cartels and the escalating violence is a legitimate concern of many US citizens as we share a non-secure border with Mexico. This is a safety issue and you know it.
The El Paso-Ciudad Juarez border shows otherwise.

What's going on in the border areas of Mexico is not random. They are calculated attacks.

Since the drug trade in the United States and the drug trade in Mexico are very much related, if not the same thing, I'm not saying that people involved in it are not dying in the U.S. That's been happening for decades. Many murders in the U.S. are drug related, just like the murders that are going on in Mexico are.

That kind of thing, you can't keep out with a fence. Illegal immigrants are not at the bottom of this. It's a completely different issue.

If we wanted to bring down the Mexican cartels(which would just open up the lucrative business of drug smuggling for someone else), we need to do something about the demand of drugs in the United States that is keeping them in power.
And as far as the violence going on down there, we need to do something about all the American weapons being smuggled into Mexico to fuel this war.

All those machine guns, heavy caliber weapons, ammo, grenades? Mexico has tight gun laws. You can't own guns down there, they aren't as widespread as guns here. Most of them are coming from the U.S.

Same thing as the drugs. The weapons wouldn't be going to Mexico if there wasn't criminals wanting to buy them. Drugs wouldn't be going to U.S. if there weren't criminals wanting to buy them, and distribute them to users who want to buy them and use them.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 12:45 AM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,803 posts, read 19,574,286 times
Reputation: 35847
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
The El Paso-Ciudad Juarez border shows otherwise.

What's going on in the border areas of Mexico is not random. They are calculated attacks.

Since the drug trade in the United States and the drug trade in Mexico are very much related, if not the same thing, I'm not saying that people involved in it are not dying in the U.S. That's been happening for decades. Many murders in the U.S. are drug related, just like the murders that are going on in Mexico are.

That kind of thing, you can't keep out with a fence. Illegal immigrants are not at the bottom of this. It's a completely different issue.

If we wanted to bring down the Mexican cartels(which would just open up the lucrative business of drug smuggling for someone else), we need to do something about the demand of drugs in the United States that is keeping them in power.
And as far as the violence going on down there, we need to do something about all the American weapons being smuggled into Mexico to fuel this war.

All those machine guns, heavy caliber weapons, ammo, grenades? Mexico has tight gun laws. You can't own guns down there, they aren't as widespread as guns here. Most of them are coming from the U.S.

Same thing as the drugs. The weapons wouldn't be going to Mexico if there wasn't criminals wanting to buy them. Drugs wouldn't be going to U.S. if there weren't criminals wanting to buy them, and distribute them to users who want to buy them and use them.
I'm sorry but please don't blame the US for Mexico's problem with corruption. The reason the drug cartels are so prominent in Mexico is due to the government's corruption, which includes the buying off many police officers. We don't have those issues here as drug use is illegal and we enforce our drug laws.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 01:42 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,154 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
I'm sorry but please don't blame the US for Mexico's problem with corruption. The reason the drug cartels are so prominent in Mexico is due to the government's corruption, which includes the buying off many police officers. We don't have those issues here as drug use is illegal and we enforce our drug laws.
Get real. Why do you think the drug business is so lucrative? We don't have those issues here because drug use is illegal? They have those issues there because drug use is illegal here. Just like how during prohibition Americans like Al Capone and many others got rich off of smuggling liqour. With all the money from smuggling, the American organized crime scene grew in power, and we had a lot of corruption here as well. Thankfully, it was something like alcohol that was able to be legalized keeping things from going to far out of control.

What's with you types refusing to admit anything wrong with out country? You can't outsource all our problems. Most of the crime is happening along the U.S. border(not the Guatemalan border), because crime organizations are fighting over who gets to get rich off the United State's hunger for drugs.

It's an unfortunate reality, but there you go. All of our own drug dealers? The famous crack epidemic? Heroin dealers, coke dealers? Where do you think they get their product from? The drug trade has always been beyond the border, it's nothing new for it to "spill over".

I love my country, but I know our country's problems, and don't want to scapegoat Mexico for everything. I blame the drug suppliers over there, but I also blame the drug buyers here who want to peddle it in our neighborhoods too.

For the corruption to end in Mexico will be for Mexico's benefit. We need to do something about our own drug problem in this country that is allowing criminal organizations like the cartels to get rich and powerful enough to buy off police, military.

You guys have this mental block that prevents you guys from accepting that some problems goes beyond the Mexicans.

That's why immigration is one thing. The drug trade is a whole other.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 01:51 AM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,803 posts, read 19,574,286 times
Reputation: 35847
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Get real. Why do you think the drug business is so lucrative? We don't have those issues here because drug use is illegal? They have those issues there because drug use is illegal here. Just like how during prohibition Americans like Al Capone and many others got rich off of smuggling liqour. With all the money from smuggling, the American organized crime scene grew in power, and we had a lot of corruption here as well. Thankfully, it was something like alcohol that was able to be legalized keeping things from going to far out of control.

What's with you types refusing to admit anything wrong with out country? You can't outsource all our problems. Most of the crime is happening along the U.S. border(not the Guatemalan border), because crime organizations are fighting over who gets to get rich off the United State's hunger for drugs.

It's an unfortunate reality, but there you go. All of our own drug dealers? The famous crack epidemic? Heroin dealers, coke dealers? Where do you think they get their product from? The drug trade has always been beyond the border, it's nothing new for it to "spill over".

I love my country, but I know our country's problems, and don't want to scapegoat Mexico for everything. I blame the drug suppliers over there, but I also blame the drug buyers here who want to peddle it in our neighborhoods too.

For the corruption to end in Mexico will be for Mexico's benefit. We need to do something about our own drug problem in this country that is allowing criminal organizations like the cartels to get rich and powerful enough to buy off police, military.

You guys have this mental block that prevents you guys from accepting that some problems goes beyond the Mexicans.

That's why immigration is one thing. The drug trade is a whole other.
What do you suggest we do, legalize drugs? I doubt that would cure Mexico of it's drug cartel problem as they would need to search for another revenue stream (such as the kidnappings for ransom that's gaining popularity with the cartels). The government in Mexico is broken and the US is left picking up the pieces in terms of our illegal immigration and the crime waves that are associated with it.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 02:04 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,899,154 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by msconnie73 View Post
What do you suggest we do, legalize drugs? I doubt that would cure Mexico of it's drug cartel problem as they would need to search for another revenue stream (such as the kidnappings for ransom that's gaining popularity with the cartels). The government in Mexico is broken and the US is left picking up the pieces in terms of our illegal immigration and the crime waves that are associated with it.
Who knows what to do? As long as there is a demand for drugs, it's going to be a difficult problem. And I don't see the demand for drugs ending anytime soon.

Without drug smuggling, the cartels will lose their power. "Kidnappings for ransom" don't bring enough money to hire cartel soldiers, and pay off police/military. I don't think you know very much about that subject.
There is insane amounts money coming in from American distributors purchasing drug loads. The smuggling organizations bring in so much money, they have a lot of cash to throw at people.

And I don't know if you follow the threads too much around here, but you should look at the thread about illegal heavy cities being some of the safest cities in the United States. While I don't doubt many illegals commit crimes, there is more than 12 million of them. Of course youre going to hear about crimes they have committed.

But the drug cartels have not caused widespread immigration. The only people immigrating because of the cartels and the kidnapping, are wealthy businessman, officials or politicians who are targeted by those people.
They are a small number.

The huge number of illegal immigration has nothing to do with the cartel violence.
 
Old 12-22-2008, 02:13 AM
 
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
38,803 posts, read 19,574,286 times
Reputation: 35847
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Who knows what to do? As long as there is a demand for drugs, it's going to be a difficult problem. And I don't see the demand for drugs ending anytime soon.

Without drug smuggling, the cartels will lose their power. "Kidnappings for ransom" don't bring enough money to hire cartel soldiers, and pay off police/military. I don't think you know very much about that subject.
There is insane amounts money coming in from American distributors purchasing drug loads. The smuggling organizations bring in so much money, they have a lot of cash to throw at people.

And I don't know if you follow the threads too much around here, but you should look at the thread about illegal heavy cities being some of the safest cities in the United States. While I don't doubt many illegals commit crimes, there is more than 12 million of them. Of course youre going to hear about crimes they have committed.

But the drug cartels have not caused widespread immigration. The only people immigrating because of the cartels and the kidnapping, are wealthy businessman, officials or politicians who are targeted by those people.
They are a small number.

The huge number of illegal immigration has nothing to do with the cartel violence.
Sounds like you have your head in the sand. The kidnappings and business shakedowns are becoming a rampant problem in Mexico, especially in the border towns on Mexico's side. With our non-secure border, it would be foolish to entertain the thought that the violence will magically stay on Mexico's side.
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