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Old 12-29-2008, 05:47 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,402,235 times
Reputation: 3789

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ECG1951 View Post
SPANISH SPEAKERS ARE DIMINISHING???? YOU WISH!!

I AGREE WITH YOU THAT ILLEGALS ALIENS ARE BEING SENT BACK..OR LEAVING ON THEIR OWN FREE WILL...

BUT...

SORRY, BUT YOU MUST LIVE IN ANOTHER PLANET...CHECK OUT STATS..GOVERNMENT STATS
First point: drop the caps, please.

Second point: I live here in Arizona and I hear far less Spanish spoken compared to a year ago. That is an indicator that illegal aliens are fleeing as we speak.

 
Old 12-29-2008, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Missouri
3,640 posts, read 4,398,926 times
Reputation: 768
Quote:
Originally Posted by ECG1951 View Post
if you speak farsi..then maybe you should apply for a gov job, they are always looking for farsi speakers..but naturally you need to speak, write and read farsi perfectly...

there are places that are looking for people who are bilingual in japanese...chinese....german...and even russian...so

be my guess...keep knocking down spanish speakers..soon there wont be any jobs left for any of you people who are against others languages being learned and spoken!!
I have my own business. I don't need the government. I leave that for people who want and need some sort of nanny to look after them.

BTW, you can people fake all you want but all you did in here was to show everyone how sad you are since you had the need to call names and to post in all caps and bold, which still didn't change the fact that you had nothing of substance to say.
 
Old 12-29-2008, 08:03 AM
 
8,240 posts, read 15,222,788 times
Reputation: 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinman01 View Post
I speak 2 languages and can get my point across in 2 others....
So learn as many as you like. My post was for John anyway. He feels no need to learn more and I support him in his decision. He has no plans to travel to spanish speaking lands so he has no need other than for personal satsfaction.
I also enjoy learning languages. Spanish will not be one of them, Why? No not because of hispanic people. But because I have no desire to travel to spanish speaking countries. Been to spain. Loved it. I am just not going back.
Good for you! It's a great feeling to read a paper or a book in the original language, I love it. There is no way to learn all languages, and if Spanish isn't your choice so be it. Personally, I'm not a fan of Asian languages- to gutteral and unpleasant sounding. I'd love to learn Portugese next. I love Brasilian songs. Spain is lovely, especially Marbella.
 
Old 12-29-2008, 08:06 AM
 
8,240 posts, read 15,222,788 times
Reputation: 3674
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
See, here's the thing.

None of us are against anyone learning another language. I myself, am continuing Spanish and beginning Lakota for my graduate degree.

Our problem is with those who come to this country and refuse to learn the de-facto lingua franca of the United States--English. It really doesn't matter if they are Spanish speakers, Mandrin Chinese speakers, or speakers of Abaga, from the Eastern Highlands Province of Papua, New Guinea. If you emigrate to another country, then it is your responsibility to assimilate into your host country.

Period.
Give them time! It took the first wave of immigrants from Eastern Europe a couple of generations to completely assimilate- and they didn't have the internet, satellite TV and telephones to keep their first language going strong as today's immigrants do. Not only that, but they have companies who market to them in their language, and governments who want to keep them poor and uneducated by teaching their kids in their native language!
 
Old 12-29-2008, 08:17 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,850,924 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Jarrett View Post
Most Hispanics have significant Amerindian admixture and for most of them it is usually very visible in their appearence because most Hispanics have Amerindian influenced high cheekbones and Amerindian influenced almond shaped eyes. When somebody says that a person "looks Hispanic" that person almost always has those 2 physical features that I mentioned.
No, no, no....

Hispanic is a term that has historically denoted relation to the ancient Hispania (geographically encompassing the Iberian peninsula which consists of modern day Spain, Portugal, Andorra, and Gibraltar and its pre-Roman peoples.

The term is now used to convey the culture and peoples of countries formerly ruled by Spain and which still have a large Spanish or Spanish descendant presence and usually, but not always, speak the Spanish language.

These countries include Mexico, Central and South America, the Greater Antilles, the Southwestern United States, Florida, the African nations of Equatorial Guinea, and the Western Sahara. Traces of Hispanic culture may exist also in Asia-Pacific nations and territories of the Philippines, Guam, and the Northern Mariana Islands as well. In any area where the Spanish conquerors "sowed their seed" remnants of Hispanic ancestry/culture may be found. Despite their many similarities, Hispanics do not compose a homogeneous people or culture--no more so than all White people are Gaelic and all Asians are Chinese.

Last edited by Kele; 12-29-2008 at 08:44 AM..
 
Old 12-29-2008, 08:43 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,850,924 times
Reputation: 3012
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Give them time! It took the first wave of immigrants from Eastern Europe a couple of generations to completely assimilate- and they didn't have the internet, satellite TV and telephones to keep their first language going strong as today's immigrants do. Not only that, but they have companies who market to them in their language, and governments who want to keep them poor and uneducated by teaching their kids in their native language!
My experience with legal immigrants from my grandparents generation--who legally emigrated to this country proves differently. My grandmother told me that a basic understanding of English was required before she and my grandfather were ever allowed to come through Ellis Island--and they learned enough to get by and to ensure that English was the language spoken in their home so that their children would always know that THEY were Americans.

Why did they try so hard? Why was it so important to them that their children become Americans? Because they understood that language assimilation was the key to their children's as well as their own success in America.

Now, rather than requiring immigrants to have a basic concept of the language, we pander to their inequities, encouraging them to remain unilingual rather than assimilating into American culture and language.

Although there are many murkier parts of America’s past, there has been a general sense of shared experience which has brought her citizens, even with all of their differences, together during times of crisis. I believe that this has had to do in part with the government’s earliest immigration requirements—that is, that those wishing to become a part of this country learn the language shared by the vast majority of its citizens. While early immigrants to this country added the distinctions of their various cultures into the American melting pot, the fact that citizens shared the same language, gave them common ground by which they could relate to each other.

Shared language is a part of shared experience. No matter where a person’s ancestry originates from, sharing language with his or her neighbors gives that person a sense of community, a sense of belonging. When entire cultural enclaves are created, in which a person neither learns the unofficial language of their host country, nor do they encourage their children to do so, then it no longer becomes important to integrate into American society. At this point, for many within American society, diversity becomes divisive, many times breeding intolerance and distrust.

If America was to become, with the blessings of its elected government, multilingual, would the necessary support for its citizens be obtainable? Who would bear the burden of cost in order to ensure that no one language group is left behind? Would that burden of cost fall to those who already speak the unofficial language of the country? After all, it is likely that those who do not speak English, which has become the de-facto lingua franca of commerce worldwide, are not the biggest contributors to the American tax base. Seemingly, the cost of transformation from a (semi) single lingual country to one of multiple languages would be prohibitive.

Multilingualism (as promoted by governmental acceptance) in this country would likely have a devastating effect on our educational system. While a certain amount of bilingual education already exists, if the government were to embark on a path which recognizes a wide variety of languages as “official” languages of the country—education’s course could become dodgy. Would we then be forced into “separate, but equal” classes for each individual language group? “Separate, but equal” institutions? How would that generation’s children adjust to the variety of linguistic enclaves kept separate by the educational system, let alone each other once their dependency upon those institutions has ended? Will there also be “separate, but equal” employment opportunities and environments as well? How would America, as a world superpower, deal with an entire country which is separated not only by the issues it’s citizens now routinely encounter, but by it’s citizen’s inability to even carry on a simple conversation with their own neighbors?

People are so quick to look at and judge the need for a homogeneous language as somehow biased and exclusive. Yet I believe that the opposite is true. People are united by commonality. Diversity is a wonderful thing up to a point. Language diversity in a nation supposedly united by common goals is impractical and unworkable.

As a nation, we already face many points of contention which divide us all. Language segregation should not be added to the list of concerns.
 
Old 12-29-2008, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,402,235 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by mimimomx3 View Post
Give them time! It took the first wave of immigrants from Eastern Europe a couple of generations to completely assimilate- and they didn't have the internet, satellite TV and telephones to keep their first language going strong as today's immigrants do. Not only that, but they have companies who market to them in their language, and governments who want to keep them poor and uneducated by teaching their kids in their native language!
Must be a case by case basis here: My father immigrated from Hungary (legally) in 1951; my bio mother is a generic 'Anglo-Irish' American White woman with deep roots in the antebellum South(east).

I consider myself to be an unhyphenated American and I self identify with 'Anglo' American culture.
 
Old 12-29-2008, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Home, Home on the Front Range
22,743 posts, read 16,188,147 times
Reputation: 12718
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Is it a typo if it happens more than once?
I still stand by my claim that Hispanics are assimilating as well as everyone else. If the first generation immigrants lasts longer without speaking English, who cares? As long as the next generation is completely assimilated, which I find to be the case.

The first immigrant not learning English isn't unique to Hispanics. I see it being VERY common among Koreans and Chinese in their specific neighborhoods. But their next generation, just like that of Hispanics, are usually fully assimilated.

It's just a lot more noticeable among the Latino ones, because they are much more numerous, and don't stay in their enclaves which are made to be like their countries of origin, like the Koreans and Chinese do.
I agree - I know of one town in NJ where virtually every store sign is printed in Korean with no English translation. I belonged to a church that shared space with a Korean congregation. The pastor and many members had been in this country in some cases 10+ years, but, none of them were fluent English speakers and some spoke virtually no English at all.
Same thing occurs with native Chinese speakers as well. And, some are highly educated, professional people. I am sure that there are people living in Manhattan's Chinatown who have never interacted with anyone who isn't Chinese. Similarly, you can travel to the Brighton Beach section of Brooklyn and encounter people who speak only Russian or Ukrainian and who communicate only in those languages.

The fact is, that in some parts of the country, the populations are large enough that people can have businesses and interact only with others of their ethnic groups. Their children may assimilate, but then again they may not.

One comment on the original post - what I think the OP was trying to say when providing the history lesson is that there is a huge aspect of our country's heritage that is often forgotten, and gets nowhere near the attention it should. Schoolchildren are taught an incredibly 'anglicized' version of American history and the fact that the Spaniards were in this country before the Dutch and the English is something that should be more widely regarded. I think the only point the OP was trying to get across is that many people of Spanish or Mexican heritage are not new arrivals, and we do them and us a disservice by lumping everyone together.

In the last few years, it has become apparent, to me anyway, that for many people, anti-illegal does equal anti-hispanic. Where is the outcry over the illegals from China, Russia and so forth? We don't see them because they disappear into their ghettos, protected by their communities.
The irony in all of this is that we notice the people from Mexico or Guatemala because they are assimilating.
 
Old 12-29-2008, 10:00 AM
 
1,164 posts, read 1,584,284 times
Reputation: 1160
Anti ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT! Regardless of who they are and where they come from.

However, since it is fairly obvious that the rather large nation directly to the South of the U.S. is Mexico a gang infested corrupt third-world country, and Mexico is largely "hispanic" and our southern border is basically non-existent....MOST of the ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are "hispanic"......from Mexico.
This does not mean that we do not see OTM (other than mexican) ILLEGALS.....chinese, sudanese and others coming in. Many have figured out that the U.S.-Mexican border is the best place to cross because the very notion of a border itself is buried in politically correct politics.....
 
Old 12-29-2008, 11:15 AM
 
8,648 posts, read 15,261,941 times
Reputation: 4567
My Hispanic renters are anti illegals.
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