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Old 01-19-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,345,361 times
Reputation: 1832

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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You're right, of course....how embarassing of me. Since, as you've pointed out, we have an Indonesian Muslim for a president, and a Mexican as a State Governor, how can we possibly have a problem with 20 million people living here illegally?

Thanks for pointing out the connection. There's lots to learn here, and I'm going to get busy...
Whatever...hey more power to you. If it took thinking Obama is W.A.S.P to get him in office so be it...He is in office...

 
Old 01-19-2009, 10:43 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
Whatever...hey more power to you. If it took thinking Obama is W.A.S.P to get him in office so be it...He is in office...
He's not the first President to "pull a fast one" on us....and 'making us THINK he's a WASP' is probably not as serious a matter as, for example, making us THINK we could bring democracy to Iraq...or making us THINK he was concerned about illegal immigration...or making us THINK he cared about the middle class.

There are worse ways to be decieved than somebody 'passing for a WASP'.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 11:31 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Regardless, Obama is not in anyway culturally W.A.S.P. What about him culturally makes him white anglo saxon protestant?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
He is not culturally W.A.S.P....he was raised in many multi cultural settings...He went to a Muslim school in Indonesia. Calling Obama W.A.S.P is like calling Bill Richardson WASP...which I think that AZ Bear did at one time. Had to remind him that time that Richardson was raised in Mexico City...
You do realize he was raised by his “white” mother, and his “white” grandparents, don’t you? How do you define “culture?”

I attended a predominately white high school, and predominately white colleges. I dare say; my attendance at those institutions did not change my “blackness.” Yes, it afforded me a perspective I would not have had had I attended all-blacks schools, but it did not change who I am.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,345,361 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You do realize he was raised by his “white” mother, and his “white” grandparents, don’t you? How do you define “culture?”

I attended a predominately white high school, and predominately white colleges. I dare say; my attendance at those institutions did not change my “blackness.” Yes, it afforded me a perspective I would not have had had I attended all-blacks schools, but it did not change who I am.
But are you W.A.S.P....that is the question? You say you got a perspective but also say it did no change you...So in a sense you are wanting to agree but finding it difficult to do so. Just agree with Bear if you find it easier..Obama is WASP...
 
Old 01-19-2009, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
But are you W.A.S.P....that is the question? You say you got a perspective but also say it did no change you...So in a sense you are wanting to agree but finding it difficult to do so. Just agree with Bear if you find it easier..Obama is WASP...
You mentioned the fact that Obama attended an Indonesian school, as though his attendance somehow made him “culturally” Indonesian. I responded by illustrating my experience.

I ask again, how do you define culture?
 
Old 01-19-2009, 12:07 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,900,435 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You mentioned the fact that Obama attended an Indonesian school, as though his attendance somehow made him “culturally” Indonesian. I responded by illustrating my experience.

I ask again, how do you define culture?
Thank God he didn't attend a school in mexico otherwise they'd be claiming him as the first mexican POTUS.
 
Old 01-19-2009, 12:13 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,619,457 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by ibarrio View Post
But are you W.A.S.P....that is the question? You say you got a perspective but also say it did no change you...So in a sense you are wanting to agree but finding it difficult to do so. Just agree with Bear if you find it easier..Obama is WASP...
Obama is not a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant", no. Neither are the majority of Americans. I'm not, Benicar's not...probably only a small percentage of Americans fit that narrow definition.

But America's "value system" is WASP. The place was founded by a small, rather select group of English protestants, and their efforts, and the government they set up, today forms the basis of a common American culture. Such values as the ability to trust in strangers....the precedence of the legal system over ties to 'family and tribe'...the 'peaceful transfer of power that Obama himself just mentioned...the strong emphasis on 'self restraint'...the VERY strong intolerance for corruption in government... This 'artificial' culture (rather than a hereditary one) is what allows our diverse society to function peacfully...and the WASPS invented it.

Very FEW of us today live, think or 'act' like our foreign immigrant ancestors. We've 'lost our rough edges' and are now Americans. Those who don't 'get this' have problems, because it's absolutely vital.

Whether we 'like' it or not, America and it's 'system' was founded by WASPS...NOT by Germans, or Italians, or Irish, or Chinese.....NOT by Catholics, or Muslims, or Jews....NOT by Hispanics, Czechs, or Afghans or Arabs. If it HAD been founded by ANY of these groups, it most likely would NOT be the place that it is.

So 'far out' was the thinking of these founding 'Wasps' that they specifcally wrote into their rules that THEY must share power equally with others...freedom for ALL, not just WASPS, was the aim. That was a pretty unique concept in its time.

Today, Obama is "all of the above", culturally. He's doesn't 'look at life' as a European, nor as an African, (like his ancestors did), but as an American. He's an 'assimilated American'. If you want to say that makes him 'culturally a WASP' I'd agree. Not in regards to music, food, or artwork....but in values, he's a modern American "wasp".
 
Old 01-19-2009, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,819,795 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Obama is not a "White Anglo-Saxon Protestant", no. Neither are the majority of Americans. I'm not, Benicar's not...probably only a small percentage of Americans fit that narrow definition.

But America's "value system" is WASP. The place was founded by a small, rather select group of English protestants, and their efforts, and the government they set up, today forms the basis of a common American culture. Such values as the ability to trust in strangers....the precedence of the legal system over ties to 'family and tribe'...the 'peaceful transfer of power that Obama himself just mentioned...the strong emphasis on 'self restraint'...the VERY strong intolerance for corruption in government... This 'artificial' culture (rather than a hereditary one) is what allows our diverse society to function peacfully...and the WASPS invented it.

Very FEW of us today live, think or 'act' like our foreign immigrant ancestors. We've 'lost our rough edges' and are now Americans. Those who don't 'get this' have problems, because it's absolutely vital.

Whether we 'like' it or not, America and it's 'system' was founded by WASPS...NOT by Germans, or Italians, or Irish, or Chinese.....NOT by Catholics, or Muslims, or Jews....NOT by Hispanics, Czechs, or Afghans or Arabs. If it HAD been founded by ANY of these groups, it most likely would NOT be the place that it is.

So 'far out' was the thinking of these founding 'Wasps' that they specifcally wrote into their rules that THEY must share power equally with others...freedom for ALL, not just WASPS, was the aim. That was a pretty unique concept in its time.

Today, Obama is "all of the above", culturally. He's doesn't 'look at life' as a European, nor as an African, (like his ancestors did), but as an American. He's an 'assimilated American'. If you want to say that makes him 'culturally a WASP' I'd agree. Not in regards to music, food, or artwork....but in values, he's a modern American "wasp".
And the hits keep on coming. . . .
 
Old 01-19-2009, 01:01 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,345,361 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
Strictly speaking, many people now referred to as "WASPs" are not Anglo-Saxon – that is, the descendants of the Germanic peoples, who settled in Britain between the 5th century and the Norman Conquest.[3] However, in modern North American usage, WASP may include Protestants, from English, Dutch, German, Huguenot (French Protestant), Scandinavian, Scottish, Ulster Scots and Welsh backgrounds.[4] Therefore, the term WASP is sometimes applied to individuals who are technically non-Anglo-Saxons, including people with:

* Dutch descent, such as the Vanderbilt and Roosevelt families
* German descent, such as the Rockefeller, Heinz, and Astor families.[5]
* French descent, such as the Du Pont family
* Scottish descent, such as the Carnegie family.
* Scottish-Irish descent, such as the Mellon family.
and this, which was my point....

Quote:
The term WASP has many meanings. In sociology it reflects that segment of the U.S. population that founded the nation and traced their heritages to ... Northwestern Europe... The term has largely negative connotations... Today... less than 25 percent of the U.S. population [is WASP]. Nevertheless they continue to... have disproportionate influence over... American institutions. The term... has become more inclusive. To many people, WASP now include most 'white' people who are not... members of any minority group.
—William Thompson & Joseph Hickey, 2005, Society in Focus[1]
 
Old 01-19-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,345,361 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And the hits keep on coming. . . .
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