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Old 02-17-2009, 03:43 AM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 162,827 times
Reputation: 148

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
Not that simple, as recession deepens, people have less money, and are willing to pay even less than before, and the only way to get some decent
bang for your buck is, through hiring undocumented, beleive me we are seeing this more, and more...
Just great to see you back on the board again! A cynical view of things, unfortunately your opinion is well supported by the behavior of Americans during the last 30 years.

However, it is my sincere hope that the financial butt kicking everyone in the world is getting right now results not in continuing with the poor logic that resulted in this mess in the first place; but instead, a change to having some responsibility and constraints.

If citizens are willing to be so short sighted as to believe that the cost of labor paid from their pocket to a laborer is what the final cost to them and society, then a major change is needed. If needed heavy fines along with shaming (publishing the person who hired an illegal with their picture in the local newspaper) is what might be needed.

Spending less, being satisfied with what one has, living within one's means, planning for the future and not completely screwing over one's unborn children and grandchildren with a massive national debt might just be in order.

Part of this is taking care of our own -- making sure the focus is on education and healthcare for legal residents and a serious protection of that status and serious and aggressive measures to combat people who attempt to infringe on what it means to be in the U.S. legally.
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Old 02-17-2009, 01:19 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,723,770 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
Not that simple, as recession deepens, people have less money, and are willing to pay even less than before, and the only way to get some decent
bang for your buck is, through hiring undocumented, beleive me we are seeing this more, and more...
And who might those people be? The people who have decided to build a new house? The people who have decided that now is the time to have a new gourmet kitchen installed? The people who want to undertake a major landscaping project? The people who eat out all the time in restaurants? The person who decides that he is just too fat and lazy to mow his lawn this year and hires an illegal to do it? The mother who is tired of having her sister-in-law watch her kids while she is at work and opts to hire an illegal 'nanny'?

If you were an actual American it should be obvious to you that people are not spending money like they used to. Between investment losses, decreased home values and worries about job security, alot of people are cutting way back on discretionary spending. Many illegals, if not most, find employment in this non-essential work. You do not absolutely have to build a new house. If times are hard, you can continue to live in your present home or apartment even though it may be a bit crowded. You do not absolutely have to have a brand new kitchen with all the latest appliances. Make do with the old one for a few more years. You can probably do a passable job of sprucing up your yard on your own with the help of a few of the neighborhood teens for the heavy work. There is a ton of info out there on what to plant where, even ready made plans that you can follow. Why pay $25 to eat lunch in a restaurant every day when you can pack a lunch from home for a fraction of the cost? Mow your own lawn or hire the kid down the block to do it. if you have a good childcare arrangement with your sister-in-law, keep it! Your children are much safer in her hands than with a woman who may not even be able to speak enough English to tell a 911 operator what is happening during an emergency. And please don't tell me about how illegal aliens pick grapes and tomatoes. Only a small percentage work in harvesting crops and you know it. Illegal aliens are not working as firemen, CPAs, MDs or teachers. They have habitually found employment in areas like landscaping and remodeling. No one is going to get rid of their child's school teacher when they need to cut back on spending, but they may very well stop the lawn service.

There may be one positive aspect to this recession if people realize that they need to live within their means and that the 'cheap' labor provided by illegals never has been cheap. The considerable social costs of having them and their families in the US are borne by the US taxpayer. People are finally starting to wake up and recognize that there truly is no free lunch. Your inexpensive addition to your house is no longer such a great deal when you add in your tax dollars that go to cover the social costs of illegals.

Last edited by andreabeth; 02-17-2009 at 02:34 PM..
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Old 02-17-2009, 02:33 PM
 
Location: USA
200 posts, read 300,152 times
Reputation: 66
The illegal aliens take more than they give in every way. No matter what the illegal alien spin doctors say.
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:09 PM
 
43 posts, read 46,041 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
And who might those people be? The people who have decided to build a new house? The people who have decided that now is the time to have a new gourmet kitchen installed? The people who want to undertake a major landscaping project? The people who eat out all the time in restaurants? The person who decides that he is just too fat and lazy to mow his lawn this year and hires an illegal to do it? The mother who is tired of having her sister-in-law watch her kids while she is at work and opts to hire an illegal 'nanny'?

If you were an actual American it should be obvious to you that people are not spending money like they used to. Between investment losses, decreased home values and worries about job security, alot of people are cutting way back on discretionary spending. Many illegals, if not most, find employment in this non-essential work. You do not absolutely have to build a new house. If times are hard, you can continue to live in your present home or apartment even though it may be a bit crowded. You do not absolutely have to have a brand new kitchen with all the latest appliances. Make do with the old one for a few more years. You can probably do a passable job of sprucing up your yard on your own with the help of a few of the neighborhood teens for the heavy work. There is a ton of info out there on what to plant where, even ready made plans that you can follow. Why pay $25 to eat lunch in a restaurant every day when you can pack a lunch from home for a fraction of the cost? Mow your own lawn or hire the kid down the block to do it. if you have a good childcare arrangement with your sister-in-law, keep it! Your children are much safer in her hands than with a woman who may not even be able to speak enough English to tell a 911 operator what is happening during an emergency. And please don't tell me about how illegal aliens pick grapes and tomatoes. Only a small percentage work in harvesting crops and you know it. Illegal aliens are not working as firemen, CPAs, MDs or teachers. They have habitually found employment in areas like landscaping and remodeling. No one is going to get rid of their child's school teacher when they need to cut back on spending, but they may very well stop the lawn service.

There may be one positive aspect to this recession if people realize that they need to live within their means and that the 'cheap' labor provided by illegals never has been cheap. The considerable social costs of having them and their families in the US are borne by the US taxpayer. People are finally starting to wake up and recognize that there truly is no free lunch. Your inexpensive addition to your house is no longer such a great deal when you add in your tax dollars that go to cover the social costs of illegals.

The fact is that the economy is not good for the poor in Mexico either, that's why despite our ailing economy they keep coming in record numbers.

Last edited by boricuita; 02-18-2009 at 05:09 PM.. Reason: ok
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Old 02-18-2009, 05:24 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,723,770 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by boricuita View Post
The fact is that the economy is not good for the poor in Mexico either, that's why despite our ailing economy they keep coming in record numbers.
Bring it. If millions more of them show up in El Norte to leech and mooch off the US benefit system, which is already in danger of collapse, while Americans are losing their jobs and homes left and right, the sooner actual Americans are going to get real fed up and chase them back across the border where they belong.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:17 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,715,651 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mori-vivi View Post
Not that simple, as recession deepens, people have less money, and are willing to pay even less than before, and the only way to get some decent
bang for your buck is, through hiring undocumented, beleive me we are seeing this more, and more...
Frankly; you are grasping at straws at best. Enjoy your fantasies while you still can.
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Old 02-18-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,715,651 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by boricuita View Post
The fact is that the economy is not good for the poor in Mexico either, that's why despite our ailing economy they keep coming in record numbers.
And; illegal aliens are being deported in growing numbers as well.............

Accept the fact that you illegal apologists have lost the war. It is time to bid adieu to the USA.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,906,174 times
Reputation: 3682
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevK View Post
The Republicans love to bash immigrants and illegal immigrants with lines like "they get free medical care and food stamps." Of course they never let the TRUTH get in the way of politics. Here are the FACTS:

1. Illegal aliens qualify for NOTHING but emergency care in this country. If they get sick or get cancer, they are sent home to die. No chemo and no treatment is given to them at all.
2. Legal immigrants also qualify for nothing except for emergency care and immunizations for children. They must be in the country for 5 years before they qualify for ANY government program including Section 8, foodstamps, SCHIP, Medicare, Medicaid. They must be present and WORK for 10 years before they qualify for Social Security benefits of any kind. If a child of a LEGAL immigrant gets cancer and does not have PRIVATE insurance, they too are sent home to DIE and no treatment is given.
Oh, please. I lived on the border for 13 years and everyone KNOWS how it goes down. There were regular sting operations rounding up the sleazy notary publics who routinely helped to provide fake documents for the illegals. THAT is how they get all of the services.

There are also the midwives who provide fraudulent birth certificates for Mexican children, showing they were born in the U.S. Why ELSE do you think that people who were born via these midwives on the border are having difficulty getting their passports? The U.S. government is requiring all sorts of proof that they actually were born and raised in the U.S.

From my former hometown newspaper:

Brothers charged with forgery Crime: Pair from Matamoros accused of creating fake birth records. , police, brothers, ortiz - Local - Brownsville Herald (http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/police_6102___article.html/brothers_ortiz.html - broken link)

Brownsville business shut down by suspicion of fraud, immigration, uresti, services - Local - Brownsville Herald (http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/immigration_57298___article.html/uresti_services.html - broken link)

Here's my personal favorite:
Apr/8 13th midwife indicted for filing false papers , midwives, trevi, midwife - Local - Brownsville Herald (http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/midwives_24831___article.html/trevi_midwife.html - broken link)

Quote:
For Gloria Bernal Lucas, 13 was an unlucky number. She became the 13th local midwife indicted by a federal grand jury on charges of filing false birth
certificates.

It is also the second time Lucas has been accused of tampering with birth
records. She was convicted in 1985 for filing fraudulent birth records and spent three years on supervised probation with the proviso she could not practice as a midwife until she completed her sentence.
And
Jun/12 Brownsville midwife expected to deliver guilty plea , birth, trevi, brownsville - Local - Brownsville Herald (http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/news/birth_29397___article.html/trevi_brownsville.html - broken link)

These are just a FEW cases from ONE city. Do you get it NOW?!
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:44 PM
 
Location: USA
200 posts, read 300,152 times
Reputation: 66
PLEASE CIRCULATE:

31 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to legal and illegal aliens each year.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd 8

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report:
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654..htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_nation

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

15. Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day!
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html

16. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9 c

17. "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine". "Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease.." The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm

18. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among Hispanic men aged 35 to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among Hispanic women in the same age group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to HIV through sexual contact with other men. Source (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm

19. If enacted the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years - fully one-third of the current population of the United States.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

20. In 2007, legal and illegal aliens cost the federal government more than $346 BILLION dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $ 9,000. for each immigrant in the country!
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

21. The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau. 1/3/05
http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf

22. Cases of Leprosy on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times. "While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy.." Leprosy is an airbourne virus, it can also be spread by touching and coughing.
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030226.leprosy.in.US.htmlhttp://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-03-15/whitford-americanleprosy http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78621

23. Two-thirds of illegal aliens lack a high school degree, the primary reason they create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, nto their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

24. America Welcomes Illegal's Contagious Disease.
http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm

25. Mexico is the 4th Richest Oil Nation in the World.
www.latinamericanstudies.org/mexico/lopez-portillo.htm

26. The United Nations list Mexico as the number one center for the supply of young children to international pedophile organizations.
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mexico.htm

27. An illegal alien parent receives welfare benefits on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. regardless of the parentʼs immigration status may receive welfare and other benefits. When such a child receives assistance, the aid also helps support the childʼs family.
Page 1. http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

28. In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits were provided to household with an illegal alien parent.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

29. U.S. households headed by illegal aliens used $26.3 billion in government services during 2002, but paid $16 billion in taxes, an annual cost to taxpayers of $10 billion. It's reasonable to expect those costs to continue to soar if action is not taken to turn the tide.
http://www.washingtontimes..com/news/2004/dec/06/20041206-102115-6766r/

30. The illegal aliens, costs U.S. taxpayers more than $32,000 in federal, state and local benefits each year. That same family contributes an average of $9,000 a year in taxes, resulting in a net tax burden of $22,449 each year. If the lower figure of 12 million illegal aliens is used for estimation purposes, the total tax burden translates to $2.2 trillion.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=55135

31. Department of Justice, Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), Department of Homeland Security spent $20 million or more in 2008 to litigate deportation orders for illegal aliens. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/18/justice-department-fail-enforce-deportation-orders/
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Old 02-19-2009, 07:23 PM
 
43 posts, read 46,041 times
Reputation: 15
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And; illegal aliens are being deported in growing numbers as well.............

Accept the fact that you illegal apologists have lost the war. It is time to bid adieu to the USA.
The myths have been debunked, if at all migrant workers support our economy,
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