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Old 01-04-2009, 04:20 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,797,340 times
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Politics and Patriotism

It would be a vast understatement to say that politics and patriotism bear startling resemblance to fanatical religion, and in alarming ways actually exceeds the extreme overzealousness which pervades religious fanaticism. I not only witnessed this personally on numerous occasions, but was intimately caught up in divisive political and patriotic fervor when I organized and ran the ProAmerica Rally on Morristown, which was held on July 28, 2007 to protest illegal immigration and advocate local and national law enforcement policies. By that time I had allowed myself to be overly influenced by toxic super-nationalism, which was underscored by exclusionary and bigoted political viewpoints using the logic of "rule of law" as a justifying facade.
http://www.robbpearson.com/articles/transformation.asp (broken link)


YouTube - Robb Pearson Reflections Pt. 1 -- Confessions of a Former Anti-illegal Immigrant Activist


YouTube - Confessions of a Former Anti-illegal immigrant activst: Robb Pearson Reflections Pt. 2

Shows you really how MOST in the hardline so called anti-illegal crowd think and operate.
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Old 01-06-2009, 08:07 AM
 
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What do you "activists" have to say about what this guy is saying?
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Old 01-06-2009, 09:14 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,045,726 times
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I think he was hanging around nasty people. I know that not everyone who is against illegal immigration is racist. I know that it is possible to welcome legal immigrants while at the same time rejecting the presence of illegal immigrants.

I also know that there are those that welcome illegal immigrants much the same way Southern plantation owners welcomed a boatload of slaves back in the day. I know those people are the real racists, yet because they march in step with a liberal agenda they are given a pass. But hey, if you are for enslaving a people so you can build a cheap ass addition to your house...well, that is on your conscience.

Last edited by camping!; 01-06-2009 at 09:27 AM..
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:01 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,629,517 times
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I also know that there are those that welcome illegal immigrants much the same way Southern plantation owners welcomed a boatload of slaves back in the day. I know those people are the real racists, yet because they march in step with a liberal agenda they are given a pass. But hey, if you are for enslaving a people so you can build a cheap ass addition to your house...well, that is on your conscience.
Well-stated. Everyone knows that any emotional issue that can POSSIBLY be made to seem like a 'racial' issue, will be. And everyone knows that this will attract the attention of any and all racists in the area, draw them 'out into the open', and that they'll quickly proceed to involve themselves in the issue, using any and all tactics that they can.

The presence of 'racists' on BOTH sides of the 'illegal' controversy is a 'given'....no argument there at all. But WE know that's not really the issue. The issue is one of trespass and the illegitimate depressing of the wage scale by "cheap labor", and the willingness on the part of many involved to break the law in order to accomplish this. The parallel you draw with slavery is a fair one. Not ALL the same, of course, but its aims are similar. Slavery, too, had its 'backers'....people who insisted "we NEED slaves."...because "free labor' just won't DO that sort of work"......and because slavery was "neccessary, or plantation owners will be forced out of business !!".

Much the same argument goes on today regarding illegal labor. To suppose that EVERYONE who trumpets the 'cause' of illegals, or insists on our 'need' for them, is doing so because he "cares" about them, is simply ludicrous. Many well-financed 'pillars of the community' have a deep financial interest in the presence of illegal immigrants...AND a huge incentive to make sure that they STAY illegal, for as long as possible..because, after all, if they became LEGAL, "we wouldn't be able to AFFORD them".....right?

Anti-illegals must deal with the fact that, whether they like it or not, their cause will always appeal to the xenophobes among us. Pro-illegals, on the other hand, must admit to themselves that not ALL of their fellow 'believers' have motives that are pure. Some people are "pro-illegal" not because they 'care' about illegals at ALL....but because there's a lot of money in it. Just like being "pro-slavery"?...well, no, not exactly...but in some ways, pretty close. Close enough to be a bit 'uncomfortable'.
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Old 01-06-2009, 01:22 PM
 
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
I think he was hanging around nasty people. I know that not everyone who is against illegal immigration is racist. I know that it is possible to welcome legal immigrants while at the same time rejecting the presence of illegal immigrants.

I also know that there are those that welcome illegal immigrants much the same way Southern plantation owners welcomed a boatload of slaves back in the day. I know those people are the real racists, yet because they march in step with a liberal agenda they are given a pass. But hey, if you are for enslaving a people so you can build a cheap ass addition to your house...well, that is on your conscience.
Agree - ugly situations attract ugly people.

Hey! Great analogy about the welcomers of illegal immigrants and plantation owners - but I dont think such people would fool anyone - by their actions, they're not liberals.
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:38 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,045,726 times
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Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
Agree - ugly situations attract ugly people.

Hey! Great analogy about the welcomers of illegal immigrants and plantation owners - but I dont think such people would fool anyone - by their actions, they're not liberals.
Agreed to that....but, while they (and by 'they' I mean business owners both large and small who knowingly pay substandard wages as well as people who hire illegals for paltry sums for home improvement projects -- and then there are the people who hire them as nannies to save a few $$) are taking advantage of a liberal movement i.e. the illegal cause, they are certainly not getting called out for it, or in any way being held accountable for it. If anything, they are used as one of the excuses for illegal immigration --'who wants to buy a $10 strawberry' etc..
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
. If anything, they are used as one of the excuses for illegal immigration --'who wants to buy a $10 strawberry' etc..
Or how about "I TRIED running a 'Help Wanted' ad in the Savannah newspaper for TWO WEEKS....and NOBODY wanted to pick cotton for anything like an 'affordable' wage"....(about 1860 or so)..."I had no CHOICE but to keep on using slaves ! Who wants to pay 3 cents apiece for pillowcases ?"....

Last edited by macmeal; 01-06-2009 at 03:12 PM..
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Old 01-06-2009, 02:55 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,894,537 times
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Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Agreed to that....but, while they (and by 'they' I mean business owners both large and small who knowingly pay substandard wages as well as people who hire illegals for paltry sums for home improvement projects -- and then there are the people who hire them as nannies to save a few $$) are taking advantage of a liberal movement i.e. the illegal cause, they are certainly not getting called out for it, or in any way being held accountable for it. If anything, they are used as one of the excuses for illegal immigration --'who wants to buy a $10 strawberry' etc..
No doubt you're right...they certainly should be called out for it and held accountable. Both of those "they"s.

I've known some of those nanny-hirer types - despicable people.

I dont know that the illegal cause is generally recognized as a liberal one...is it? I can see a lot of little wire-rimmed-glasses college kids being suckered and guilted into being sort of a human-shield front for nice old Farmer Yasgur... but I think grownups know better. () I dont know, though. Havent paid much attention to the details of it and dont know that I'll have time to. But it's fascinating, and so many crazy worlds within!
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:09 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,629,517 times
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Originally Posted by delusianne View Post
I dont know that the illegal cause is generally recognized as a liberal one...is it? I can see a lot of little wire-rimmed-glasses college kids being suckered and guilted into being sort of a human-shield front for nice old Farmer Yasgur... but I think grownups know better. () I dont know, though. Havent paid much attention to the details of it and dont know that I'll have time to. But it's fascinating, and so many crazy worlds within!
So interesting you should make this observation. I became SOMEWHAT conservative in my late 20's, when I bought my first rental house and began dealing with renters (prior to that, I simply figured 'everyone has a right to live somewhere' and let it go at that.)

I've ALWAYS had the very strong impression that any 'conservative-vs-liberal' controversy is very much like an argument between jaded, grumpy, cynical Middle-Aged adults, and idealistic, enthusiastic teenagers out to 'change the world'. Neither side is WRONG, exactly...it's just that conservatives seem more willing to discuss "who PAYS for these changes?...and who, exactly, WANTS them?".

Someone famous (can't recall just who) once said words to the effect that "If you're 20 years old, and a conservative, that's sad.....and if you're 50 years old, and a liberal, that's even sadder".....
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Old 01-06-2009, 03:18 PM
 
34,990 posts, read 33,894,537 times
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Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
So interesting you should make this observation. I became SOMEWHAT conservative in my late 20's, when I bought my first rental house and began dealing with renters (prior to that, I simply figured 'everyone has a right to live somewhere' and let it go at that.)

I've ALWAYS had the very strong impression that any 'conservative-vs-liberal' controversy is very much like an argument between jaded, grumpy, cynical Middle-Aged adults, and idealistic, enthusiastic teenagers out to 'change the world'. Neither side is WRONG, exactly...it's just that conservatives seem more willing to discuss "who PAYS for these changes?...and who, exactly, WANTS them?".

Someone famous (can't recall just who) once said words to the effect that "If you're 20 years old, and a conservative, that's sad.....and if you're 50 years old, and a liberal, that's even sadder".....
In The Big Chill, an idealistic student - Mary Kay Place actually - went to law school to become a public defender. Twenty years later, she's disenchanted. "I just didn't think they'd be so guilty!"
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