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Old 01-10-2009, 02:16 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
oh that's just good vibes hehehe
Gotcha!
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:19 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,830,020 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Gotcha!
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:20 PM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 162,568 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
"If you believe that America is too smug, too self-satisfied, too rich, then let's destroy America. It is not that hard to do. No nation in history has survived the ravages of time. Arnold Toynbee observed that all great civilizations rise and fall and that 'An autopsy of history would show that all great nations commit suicide.' "

Here is how they do it," Lamm said:

"First, to destroy America, turn America into a bilingual or multi-lingual and bicultural country." History shows that no nation can survive the tension, conflict, and antagonism of two or more competing languages and cultures. It is a blessing for an individual to be bilingual; however, it is a curse for a society to be bilingual. The historical scholar, Seymour Lipset, put it this way: "The histories of bilingual and bicultural societies that do not assimilate are histories of turmoil, tension, and tragedy." Canada, Belgium, Malaysia, and Lebanon all face crises of national existence in which minorities press for autonomy, if not independence. Pakistan and Cyprus have divided. Nigeria suppressed an ethnic rebellion. France faces difficulties with Basques, Bretons, and Corsicans."

Destroying America
My observations are that a group of people who immigrate who do not plan to merge into American culture (whatever that may be today), but instead stay separate, with their own language and their own culture; and often sending whatever of their money they can, back to their homeland, does not strike me as being consistent with what an immigrant should be.

An overwhelming tolerance that has us supplying everything in Spanish and a society which now makes it very easy for someone to operate without learning English is to blame. Lack of our politicians being willing to even make English the official language of the United States and thus all official documents in English is remarkable.

If I were to choose to migrate to France; I'd be darn well expecting that I'd be learning French and be working my hardest to adopt what French culture I could as part of migrating. I'd never even consider a move in which I'd continue to have my same language and culture and have everyone else tolerate this.

The U.S. is much to blame as it has not only allowed this situation to exist, but has significantly supported it by truly making it possible, even easy, to not have any need to merge into English speaking society and culture. This does the migrant a great disservice as they fail to at least start to enter what is supposed to be a "melting pot" and does society a disservice by having people who aren't becoming part of it.

The complete lack of maintaining immigration laws, giving sequential rounds of amnesty, etc, all add to this mess. Things are so out of control that there are few palatable answers. U.S. citizens who employ people here illegally to "save" money, are both short sighted and selfish. It has created a situation, where this money "saved" ends up generating other costs and effects through society. It has also resulted in Americans who should be taking care of the types of work now overwhelmingly taken care of by illegal aliens either being unemployed or taking other jobs. Yes, you'll pay more to make the lure of picking fruit a decent career option for American citizens, and yes, the fruit will cost more as a result; however, these folks will pay taxes, be part of the system and I would contend that once everything is considered, the costs end up being lower, the quality of the society better.

It will be interesting to see how all this sorts itself out; but with unemployement rising, we may well see people looking around an scrutinizing more carefully what jobs they may just be willing to do. I'd personally pick fruit over being unemployed or work washing dishes over being unemployed (and I have a postgraduate degree).

Ultimately, no citizen should feel they are too good to perform manual tasks; it is partly this mentality that has led to us accepting others performing this work; and it needs to be a criminal act to hire someone not in the country legally as it is short sighted to really believe that a cost savings occurs.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,662,080 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
My observations are that a group of people who immigrate who do not plan to merge into American culture (whatever that may be today), but instead stay separate, with their own language and their own culture; and often sending whatever of their money they can, back to their homeland, does not strike me as being consistent with what an immigrant should be.

An overwhelming tolerance that has us supplying everything in Spanish and a society which now makes it very easy for someone to operate without learning English is to blame. Lack of our politicians being willing to even make English the official language of the United States and thus all official documents in English is remarkable.

If I were to choose to migrate to France; I'd be darn well expecting that I'd be learning French and be working my hardest to adopt what French culture I could as part of migrating. I'd never even consider a move in which I'd continue to have my same language and culture and have everyone else tolerate this.

The U.S. is much to blame as it has not only allowed this situation to exist, but has significantly supported it by truly making it possible, even easy, to not have any need to merge into English speaking society and culture. This does the migrant a great disservice as they fail to at least start to enter what is supposed to be a "melting pot" and does society a disservice by having people who aren't becoming part of it.

The complete lack of maintaining immigration laws, giving sequential rounds of amnesty, etc, all add to this mess. Things are so out of control that there are few palatable answers. U.S. citizens who employ people here illegally to "save" money, are both short sighted and selfish. It has created a situation, where this money "saved" ends up generating other costs and effects through society. It has also resulted in Americans who should be taking care of the types of work now overwhelmingly taken care of by illegal aliens either being unemployed or taking other jobs. Yes, you'll pay more to make the lure of picking fruit a decent career option for American citizens, and yes, the fruit will cost more as a result; however, these folks will pay taxes, be part of the system and I would contend that once everything is considered, the costs end up being lower, the quality of the society better.

It will be interesting to see how all this sorts itself out; but with unemployement rising, we may well see people looking around an scrutinizing more carefully what jobs they may just be willing to do. I'd personally pick fruit over being unemployed or work washing dishes over being unemployed (and I have a postgraduate degree).

Ultimately, no citizen should feel they are too good to perform manual tasks; it is partly this mentality that has led to us accepting others performing this work; and it needs to be a criminal act to hire someone not in the country legally as it is short sighted to really believe that a cost savings occurs.
As you stated.

Hell: even my father has admitted to hiring illegal aliens to do some work for him. His excuse was he could not find Americans to work.
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:51 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,985 times
Reputation: 1094
Group hug indeed!
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:53 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,985 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
My observations are that a group of people who immigrate who do not plan to merge into American culture (whatever that may be today), but instead stay separate, with their own language and their own culture; and often sending whatever of their money they can, back to their homeland, does not strike me as being consistent with what an immigrant should be.

An overwhelming tolerance that has us supplying everything in Spanish and a society which now makes it very easy for someone to operate without learning English is to blame. Lack of our politicians being willing to even make English the official language of the United States and thus all official documents in English is remarkable.

If I were to choose to migrate to France; I'd be darn well expecting that I'd be learning French and be working my hardest to adopt what French culture I could as part of migrating. I'd never even consider a move in which I'd continue to have my same language and culture and have everyone else tolerate this.

The U.S. is much to blame as it has not only allowed this situation to exist, but has significantly supported it by truly making it possible, even easy, to not have any need to merge into English speaking society and culture. This does the migrant a great disservice as they fail to at least start to enter what is supposed to be a "melting pot" and does society a disservice by having people who aren't becoming part of it.

The complete lack of maintaining immigration laws, giving sequential rounds of amnesty, etc, all add to this mess. Things are so out of control that there are few palatable answers. U.S. citizens who employ people here illegally to "save" money, are both short sighted and selfish. It has created a situation, where this money "saved" ends up generating other costs and effects through society. It has also resulted in Americans who should be taking care of the types of work now overwhelmingly taken care of by illegal aliens either being unemployed or taking other jobs. Yes, you'll pay more to make the lure of picking fruit a decent career option for American citizens, and yes, the fruit will cost more as a result; however, these folks will pay taxes, be part of the system and I would contend that once everything is considered, the costs end up being lower, the quality of the society better.

It will be interesting to see how all this sorts itself out; but with unemployement rising, we may well see people looking around an scrutinizing more carefully what jobs they may just be willing to do. I'd personally pick fruit over being unemployed or work washing dishes over being unemployed (and I have a postgraduate degree).

Ultimately, no citizen should feel they are too good to perform manual tasks; it is partly this mentality that has led to us accepting others performing this work; and it needs to be a criminal act to hire someone not in the country legally as it is short sighted to really believe that a cost savings occurs.
We are always on the same page. Therefore all I can say: ITA and yet another great post!

Last edited by JDubsMom; 01-10-2009 at 03:03 PM..
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Old 01-10-2009, 02:57 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,517,680 times
Reputation: 47458
i know very few mexicans than do not speak some english that live here.
i know a lot of americans that are mono lingual.
speaking foreign languages is unamerican. where did that come from???
the founding fathers spoke fluent french, without french help we would have never overthrown the british. speaking foreign language is very american.
we got lazy didn't we?
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:03 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,797,340 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
i know very few mexicans than do not speak some english that live here.
i know a lot of americans that are mono lingual.
speaking foreign languages is unamerican. where did that come from???
the founding fathers spoke fluent french, without french help we would have never overthrown the british. speaking foreign language is very american.
we got lazy didn't we?
Good post.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,308,071 times
Reputation: 1423
{{{{{{Group Hug}}}}}}
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:21 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,985 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
{{{{{{Group Hug}}}}}}
Yes indeed.
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