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Old 01-10-2009, 03:26 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
No I have never been to Mexico. My son's best friend's family are mexican and we love and treat one another like family. They invited us to go with them during their visit 2 years ago, but I declined for several reasons:
(1)fear of the culture/crime and corruption; and (2) I do not speak spanish and feel that it would have been disrespectful to visit a host country while not being able to communicate independently.
Well the culture of crime and corruption while exists, is not omnipresent... Well on a sense it is as every country has it's crime/corruption subculture, but as with most people and most cultures of the world, what the big majority of people want is to enjoy a nice life, and while crime may offer you the ilusion of an easy life it comes with a cost, most people in Mexico has the common sense to stay out of it.

And regarding spanish, don't worry too much about that, a significant amount of the mexican population in the major cities or touristic sites is fluent in english, this includes police and basic services.

I don't believe that people find disrespectful to have visitors who don't speak spanish and most people feel flattered to receive visitors and try to assist them when possible, I guess that what would be disrespectful is emigrating to another country with the intention to settle and don't care about learning the culture/language. it's basic common sense.

Regards!
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:30 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I always check on a 'Benicar' post....and yes, "Fella", I agree with her...thanks for your honest take as an objective 'outsider', able to see this controversial topic from a distance. I've tried to be 'objective' as well (and I get 'beaten up' on here pretty frequently).

Three cheers for objectivity and common sense !!
Hey my friend I know that you are always objective and have a humorous way of stating your point hehe
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:40 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Well the culture of crime and corruption while exists, is not omnipresent... Well on a sense it is as every country has it's crime/corruption subculture, but as with most people and most cultures of the world, what the big majority of people want is to enjoy a nice life, and while crime may offer you the ilusion of an easy life it comes with a cost, most people in Mexico has the common sense to stay out of it.

And regarding spanish, don't worry too much about that, a significant amount of the mexican population in the major cities or touristic sites is fluent in english, this includes police and basic services.

I don't believe that people find disrespectful too have visitors who don't speak spanish and most people feel flattered to receive visitors and try to assist them when possible, I guess that what would be disrespectful is emigrating to another country with the intention to settle and don't care about learning the culture/language. it's basic common sense.

Regards!
Thanks for making me feel better about my lack of spanish skills. I only know a few words.

I was watching the history channel a few weeks ago and they were showing the gruesome murders, beheadings and those who performed them in Mexico. While the documentary was surreal, it was utterly shocking that people performed these acts in a country so close to the US border. There was a kid who had been working for the cartels since the age of 7. His method and superior skills at beheading and the commission of other murders were so precise he had risen through the ranks rapidly.

Apparently, he had gotten a little too big for his britches and decided that he wanted a piece of the action. The cartel put a hit out on him and he crossed the border to the US and turned himself in to US authorities. Watching them interview this "kid" was blood curdling as it was obvious that he was totally insane.

As I watch and read about the horror of the numerous beheadings in Mexico and other heinous acts being commited against Americans courtesty of those here illegally from SOB unfold, sadly, it has become the only perception that I have of Mexico.

Clearly, it is a little distorted since you are a normal, intelligent, articulate gentleman who according to your posts, have experienced a different reality. Nonethe less, I don't plan on visiting Mexico anytime soon.

Best wishes!

Last edited by JDubsMom; 01-10-2009 at 03:50 PM..
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:43 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I don't believe that people find disrespectful to have visitors who don't speak spanish and most people feel flattered to receive visitors and try to assist them when possible, I guess that what would be disrespectful is emigrating to another country with the intention to settle and don't care about learning the culture/language. it's basic common sense.

Regards!
I agree completely..except for your last statement..."common sense" has now become less common, and should be called "rare sense". But you're right...most people everywhere have an innate desire to show respect for visitors or strangers who show respect themselves....and most people will, if they can, help others less fortunate. Without the respect, though, the desire to help quickly diminishes.

Most decent people believe they have a moral obligation to help others..but very FEW people react favorably to an "aggressive panhandler".

Regards as well !!
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Old 01-10-2009, 03:48 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,897,260 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree completely..except for your last statement..."common sense" has now become less common, and should be called "rare sense". But you're right...most people everywhere have an innate desire to show respect for visitors or strangers who show respect themselves....and most people will, if they can, help others less fortunate. Without the respect, though, the desire to help quickly diminishes.

Most decent people believe they have a moral obligation to help others..but very FEW people react favorably to an "aggressive panhandler".

Regards as well !!
Well stated and precisely how I feel. You have to give respect in order to receive it. Additionally, a little humility goes a long way.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:07 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
My observations are that a group of people who immigrate who do not plan to merge into American culture (whatever that may be today), but instead stay separate, with their own language and their own culture; and often sending whatever of their money they can, back to their homeland, does not strike me as being consistent with what an immigrant should be.

An overwhelming tolerance that has us supplying everything in Spanish and a society which now makes it very easy for someone to operate without learning English is to blame. Lack of our politicians being willing to even make English the official language of the United States and thus all official documents in English is remarkable.

If I were to choose to migrate to France; I'd be darn well expecting that I'd be learning French and be working my hardest to adopt what French culture I could as part of migrating. I'd never even consider a move in which I'd continue to have my same language and culture and have everyone else tolerate this.

The U.S. is much to blame as it has not only allowed this situation to exist, but has significantly supported it by truly making it possible, even easy, to not have any need to merge into English speaking society and culture. This does the migrant a great disservice as they fail to at least start to enter what is supposed to be a "melting pot" and does society a disservice by having people who aren't becoming part of it.

The complete lack of maintaining immigration laws, giving sequential rounds of amnesty, etc, all add to this mess. Things are so out of control that there are few palatable answers. U.S. citizens who employ people here illegally to "save" money, are both short sighted and selfish. It has created a situation, where this money "saved" ends up generating other costs and effects through society. It has also resulted in Americans who should be taking care of the types of work now overwhelmingly taken care of by illegal aliens either being unemployed or taking other jobs. Yes, you'll pay more to make the lure of picking fruit a decent career option for American citizens, and yes, the fruit will cost more as a result; however, these folks will pay taxes, be part of the system and I would contend that once everything is considered, the costs end up being lower, the quality of the society better.

It will be interesting to see how all this sorts itself out; but with unemployement rising, we may well see people looking around an scrutinizing more carefully what jobs they may just be willing to do. I'd personally pick fruit over being unemployed or work washing dishes over being unemployed (and I have a postgraduate degree).

Ultimately, no citizen should feel they are too good to perform manual tasks; it is partly this mentality that has led to us accepting others performing this work; and it needs to be a criminal act to hire someone not in the country legally as it is short sighted to really believe that a cost savings occurs.
Very insightful post, well-written, touching on an extremely divisive issue. Basically a case of selfishness and 'me first' on the part of many, it corrodes the very fabric of what fragile 'framework' we have which holds our society together...that is, the legal system. It's about the only way we can define our society....those who are 'members' agreeing to live under our self-made 'rules'.

The presence of a massive 'bloc' of illegals, unable to benefit because of their illegality, yet made to feel that they 'deserve' part of things, has caused massive resentment aqnd a frustrated sense of 'thwarted entitlement'. It has pitted employers against employees, legal citizen against illegal, Hispanic against Hispanic, and has the added side effect of a whole generation of young Americans growing up watching their "leaders" make a mockery out of our laws. Poorly-planned, misguided attempts to temper this madness with periodic 'amnesties' has resulted not in gratitude, but in even MORE sense of entitlement, and demands for MORE concessions.

In all this, the original sense of the concept of "immigration" has been twisted into something that is 90% nothing more than an 'economic decision'. People come here, not because of oppression or religious persecution or to enjoy freedom, but to 'get money'...and to get services. Loyalty is neither demanded, nor is it forthcoming, and these folks, while they may want the 'meal ticket' part of citizenship, do not want to "become" Americans, nor do they feel compelled to do so.

MUCH of the fault lies with us, American society. Misguided liberal, ultra tolerant 'freebies' produce not 'grateful new Americans', but demanding, resentful 'arrivals'. That's human nature, and NOBODY (especially in the Third World) respects those who don't respect themselves. And much of what we're doing now, as a society, tells the world we 'don't respect ourselves'. That being the case, then, why should anyone ELSE respect us?

Being 'kind' to the world is admirable. Being 'naive' and 'gullible' just makes you look foolish.
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:10 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Well stated and precisely how I feel. You have to give respect in order to receive it. Additionally, a little humility goes a long way.
Thanks....agreed....
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:13 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
No I have never been to Mexico. My son's best friend's family are mexican and we love and treat one another like family. They invited us to go with them during their visit 2 years ago, but I declined for several reasons:
(1)fear of the culture/crime and corruption; and (2) I do not speak spanish and feel that it would have been disrespectful to visit a host country while not being able to communicate independently
.
I can clearly appreciate your feelings. I became so disillusioned over this illegal alien mess, I sold my timeshare in Cancun, and swore to never return. Frankly, Iím sorry I sold it, because I always had a wonderful time. I could be mistaken, but I get the impression you are a woman who enjoys having a good time. For years, I vacationed in Cancun, and absolutely loved it. I never encountered a problem with the locals, and found them to be hospitable and extremely accommodating. The cab drivers, waiters, and maids were delighted to engage in a conversation with me in Spanish; although at times we had difficulty clearly communicating. Fortunately, most of the staff in that area are also fluent in English, so it is not actually necessary to speak Spanish. I took my mother there one year for her birthday, and she was not treated with disdain for not understanding the language. As a matter of fact, she had a ball. Admittedly, my Spanish isnít what it used to be (use or lose), but I can still get by.

If you enjoy taking a stroll back in history, you will love the Mayan ruins. Standing at the top and looking over at the water is absolutely breathtaking. However, you do need to be in relatively good physical condition if you want to climb the steps to the top. For the life of me, I donít know how they managed on a daily basis during that era.

If you have no desire to visit Mexico (for obvious reasons), at least visit Cancun. I assure you, youíll have no regrets; and the men arenít hard on the eyes either. I have a sneaking suspicion they recruited handsome men to work at some of the locations to ensure the return of female tourists. Who knows, maybe we can hook up one day and fly down for a weekend of fun.
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:13 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
If you have no desire to visit Mexico (for obvious reasons), at least visit Cancun. I assure you, you’ll have no regrets; and the men aren’t hard on the eyes either. I have a sneaking suspicion they recruited handsome men to work at some of the locations to ensure the return of female tourists. Who knows, maybe we can hook up one day and fly down for a weekend of fun.
Lol rivera Maya is beautiful huh? I'm vacationing here right now, and I don't know what is more beautiful, places like yal ku, playa del carmen, cozumel, tulum, or the beautiful people you see here hehe
The most interesting thing is that Maya is a language that still exists and it's recovering popularity in the region now that it has been declared oficial and the constitution has been translated to maya, I wonder what took them so long, but it's nice they finally did it.
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Old 01-10-2009, 06:17 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,297,320 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I agree completely..except for your last statement..."common sense" has now become less common, and should be called "rare sense". But you're right...most people everywhere have an innate desire to show respect for visitors or strangers who show respect themselves....and most people will, if they can, help others less fortunate. Without the respect, though, the desire to help quickly diminishes.

Most decent people believe they have a moral obligation to help others..but very FEW people react favorably to an "aggressive panhandler".

Regards as well !!
Lol rare sense, I agree sometimes I think the entire world is on the brink of madness, not just regarding the illegal immigration situation, but most hot issues around the world are nothing more but a dialogue between deaf people, don't you agree?
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