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Old 01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,500,640 times
Reputation: 352

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Quote:
Originally Posted by longislandmike View Post
It's the disrespect for THE LAW, that concerns me.

It sends a message, that can be applied TO ALL LAW.

Where there is NO law, there is anarchy.

And that's what we have in this Society, anarchy.
And you're Moderator cut: personal attack who thinks every law is just. There's a million more urgent things right now than some illegal immigrants and getting rid of them would also cost quite a bit of cash (probably more so than providing public assistance taking into account increased law enforcement, transport, the clogs in our legal system). So grow up and learn to LIVE WITH IT.

You and others want to talk about issues that affect the middle and working-class (a genius term created to obscure the plight of the lower class)? Talk about the corporate idolization by both the Republicans and Democrats! You see the Republicans have brainwashed people into thinking these poor corporations are being taxed too little and that we "working" and middle class Americans don't deserve a healthcare system like the rest of the 1st world has. And the Dems have no huevos to tell the lobbyists to get out. Yet the Bernie Madoffs of the world take advantage of everyone in sight.

We need the help with health care and decent public transportation and decent infrastructure and the only thing I see is a government without the confidence and the oversight by the people to do its job correctly.

Last edited by nancy thereader; 01-10-2009 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 01-10-2009, 04:52 PM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,677 posts, read 8,459,135 times
Reputation: 7029
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoleModel View Post
. There's a million more urgent things right now than some illegal immigrants and getting rid of them would also cost quite a bit of cash (probably more so than providing public assistance taking into account increased law enforcement, transport, the clogs in our legal system). So grow up and learn to LIVE WITH IT.

You and others want to talk about issues that affect the middle and working-class (a genius term created to obscure the plight of the lower class)? Talk about the corporate idolization by both the Republicans and Democrats! You see the Republicans have brainwashed people into thinking these poor corporations are being taxed too little and that we "working" and middle class Americans don't deserve a healthcare system like the rest of the 1st world has. And the Dems have no huevos to tell the lobbyists to get out. Yet the Bernie Madoffs of the world take advantage of everyone in sight.

We need the help with health care and decent public transportation and decent infrastructure and the only thing I see is a government without the confidence and the oversight by the people to do its job correctly.
Like what? Fermenting a nanny state dependent on the government so they can regulate everything?

There's nothing wrong with healthcare, we have the best healthcare system in the world ... why else are cancer survival rates as much as 10 times higher then in Europe with their socialized health care? Why do we the US lead the world in medical research and development if our system is so broken?

Did you know that we have more MRI machines in the city of Pittsburgh then in all of Canada?

Last edited by nancy thereader; 01-10-2009 at 05:59 PM..
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Old 01-10-2009, 05:10 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,500,640 times
Reputation: 352
Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
Like what? Fermenting a nanny state dependent on the government so they can regulate everything?

There's nothing wrong with healthcare, we have the best healthcare system in the world ... why else are cancer survival rates as much as 10 times higher then in Europe with their socialized health care? Why do we the US lead the world in medical research and development if our system is so broken?

Did you know that we have more MRI machines in the city of Pittsburgh then in all of Canada?
Asking the government to do its job is now a nanny state? Asking the government to maintain roads, bridges, transportation and such is nanny stating?

And sure there's nothing wrong with healthcare...if you're the healthcare and pharmaceutical companies...or if you're rich...or if you don't mind going into crippling debt.

I sincerely doubt your statistics as well. There's other countries that have efficiently implemented such a system (Japan, Israel, Singapore). We spend 15% of our gross domestic product on health care while Japan and practically everyone else spends half that. And we don't get the results some of these countries get.

Quote:
Did you know that we have more MRI machines in the city of Pittsburgh then in all of Canada?
That's nice...but MRI machines do not make a healthcare system. And what's the use if people are going into debt because the operators and the insurance companies have decided to extort the common person? 15% of the US is unisured. Pray tell, how can these companies cure THAT?
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:43 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,803 posts, read 29,006,518 times
Reputation: 7385
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc4582 View Post
However let's not demonize the illegal immigrants here. The fact is they are looking for a better life and they get that here. It's up to the federal government to enforce immigration laws. Until that happens, the government is the culpable entity and must be held accountable.
Do you feel that the illegal immigrant should be absolved of his transgression (entering illegally, working off the books and evading taxes, wiring money out of the country as opposed to sinking it all back into the US economy?) because the government isn't doing it's job?

If the police department doesn't catch the bank robber, does that make the police department culpable for the bank robbery instead of the thief?

If the government isn't doing it's job, why should we accept the consequences?

The illegal is breaking the law and the government is turning a blind eye. Both are equally at fault.
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Old 01-10-2009, 11:52 PM
 
Location: Inis Fada
16,803 posts, read 29,006,518 times
Reputation: 7385
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc4582 View Post

As for the illegal immigrants, you can blame them for wanting to come here for a chance to make a good living? I can't... and if I were born in a poor country and had the chance to come to the United States and make good money I would jump at that chance. Again, blame your government for allowing this sort of thing to happen and get out of control.
By virtue of being born poor, they have carte blanche to break the law?

My friend is CHP; years ago they were able to pull over anyone who broke traffic law. If they pulled over an illegal, ICE was contacted and that person was being deported. Within the past few years, they have been instructed to let illegals go. Caucasian, Asian or African American -- if you break the traffic laws in CA -- you are being fined, arrested or both. If you're Hispanic -- Vaya con dio, amigo!
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Old 01-11-2009, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Miller Place NY
1,051 posts, read 2,644,376 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoleModel View Post
And you're Moderator cut: personal attack who thinks every law is just. There's a million more urgent things right now than some illegal immigrants and getting rid of them would also cost quite a bit of cash (probably more so than providing public assistance taking into account increased law enforcement, transport, the clogs in our legal system). So grow up and learn to LIVE WITH IT.

You and others want to talk about issues that affect the middle and working-class (a genius term created to obscure the plight of the lower class)? Talk about the corporate idolization by both the Republicans and Democrats! You see the Republicans have brainwashed people into thinking these poor corporations are being taxed too little and that we "working" and middle class Americans don't deserve a healthcare system like the rest of the 1st world has. And the Dems have no huevos to tell the lobbyists to get out. Yet the Bernie Madoffs of the world take advantage of everyone in sight.

We need the help with health care and decent public transportation and decent infrastructure and the only thing I see is a government without the confidence and the oversight by the people to do its job correctly.

IF the Congress can give, certain select people in our Society, $350 billion TAX DOLLARS AND NOT REQUIRE ANY ACCOUNTING FOR IT, you can bet NO ONE CARES ABOUT "THE MIDDLE AND WORKING CLASS" !

AND THEY ARE SET TO GIVE 'EM $350 billion MORE !

So, priorities DONT MATTER !
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Old 01-11-2009, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Miller Place NY
1,051 posts, read 2,644,376 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyc4582 View Post
That's a little dramatic, don't you think? There certainly isn't anarchy in our society.

As for the illegal immigrants, you can blame them for wanting to come here for a chance to make a good living? I can't... and if I were born in a poor country and had the chance to come to the United States and make good money I would jump at that chance. Again, blame your government for allowing this sort of thing to happen and get out of control.
Dramatic ?

NO, it's the essence of what NOT obeying laws AND not enforcing Law, does to our society.

That others want to come to our country, doesnot justify, coming into this country AGAINST THE RULES, AND NOT obeying the Law to enforce the illegal entry into our country. THE END, DOESNT JUSTIFY THE MEANS !

In the localities, like Long Island, it's so hypocritical of, seemingly, EVERY authority, INCLUDING THE CHURCH, even to the point of "teaching" these leeches to get public welfare and benefits !

What is the result ?

LACK OF RESPECT OF OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS !
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Old 01-11-2009, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Miller Place NY
1,051 posts, read 2,644,376 times
Reputation: 116
Quote:
Originally Posted by dman72 View Post
I don't like thugs murdering people in the streets for recreation.


I don't like the fact that the government refused to enforce immigration laws for so long, and thus allowed this to become a problem. 2 seperate issues.

We already have plenty of legal immigrants moving to Long Island...just look at how the Indian population has grown. I hear very few people complaining about that, because they come here LEGALLY.
They let it become a problem because it deflects attention from "Them" to someone else, less able to defend themselves !

As for Indians, EVERYONE is happy about them because they pay in CA$H...especially when they buy a house and a business !

When they stop being able to pay in CA$H, you can bet they will be stigmatized too !

GREEN $$$$, is color blind !
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:16 PM
 
143 posts, read 270,281 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhBeeHave View Post
Do you feel that the illegal immigrant should be absolved of his transgression (entering illegally, working off the books and evading taxes, wiring money out of the country as opposed to sinking it all back into the US economy?) because the government isn't doing it's job?

If the police department doesn't catch the bank robber, does that make the police department culpable for the bank robbery instead of the thief?

If the government isn't doing it's job, why should we accept the consequences?

The illegal is breaking the law and the government is turning a blind eye. Both are equally at fault.
You are missing the point. I never said the illegal immigrants should be absolved of their transgressions. I never said amnesty is the answer (I don't believe it is). Simply stated, to demonize these people for simply wanting a better life (even though they broke the law) when the government is allowing them is wrong. Yes they broke the law - but they are certainly not on the same grain as bank robbers. They are culpable, however, just as our government is. People are too quick to blame them but not our government.

PS - I agree that illegal immigration is not good for our society. I also believe those people who focus their attention solely on the illegal immigrants and not our government tend to be racist.

Last edited by mikeyc4582; 01-11-2009 at 02:26 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 01-11-2009, 02:20 PM
 
143 posts, read 270,281 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by longislandmike View Post
Dramatic ?

NO, it's the essence of what NOT obeying laws AND not enforcing Law, does to our society.

That others want to come to our country, doesnot justify, coming into this country AGAINST THE RULES, AND NOT obeying the Law to enforce the illegal entry into our country. THE END, DOESNT JUSTIFY THE MEANS !

In the localities, like Long Island, it's so hypocritical of, seemingly, EVERY authority, INCLUDING THE CHURCH, even to the point of "teaching" these leeches to get public welfare and benefits !

What is the result ?

LACK OF RESPECT OF OUR PUBLIC INSTITUTIONS !
I am not saying they are justified in breaking the law. All I am saying is don't focus your attention on them. It is their incentive to come here. The government isn't doing their part - that's who you should focus your attention on.

And yes, you were dramatic saying we are living in anarchy.
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