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Old 02-05-2008, 09:50 AM
 
79 posts, read 98,810 times
Reputation: 12

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Any way you try to 'spin' it; the de facto language of the USA is English.

If a person comes here to either work or simply to live; they best know our language or at least learn it real fast.
Ha, ha ha. "Your" language...
Anyway, speaking two languages won't make you less intelligent, people of almost every country learn 2 or more languages at school.
Why don't you learn to speak Spanish, it won't hurt your tongue, and you will be able to travel in more countries easier.
But i agree, Spanish mustn't replace English in USA, but they can both exist, like in Florida...
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Old 02-05-2008, 10:18 AM
 
Location: Arizona
2,065 posts, read 3,235,335 times
Reputation: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
But everyone's ancestors did not make genocides. Or it's not well known.
And if it's well known, they are not proud of that part of their past.
Really??? And the Toltecs and Aztecs??? Dancing around in the flayed skins of their enemies??? How proud should the Mexicans be of THAT???
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Old 02-05-2008, 01:25 PM
 
9,742 posts, read 9,301,909 times
Reputation: 2049
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
But everyone's ancestors did not make genocides.
What is it? "Bad things" or genocide?

And I'd be careful in making any distinction about anybody doing anything in the past.

I'll take this silly little game you're playing and raise it to a level you cannot defend.

Ready? Hold on.

Everyone...every single person on the planet...can trace his genetic roots to the San Bushmen of south and east Africa. We are all related. You see, everyone's ancestors did "make genocide." In other words, if the information were available, I could genetically prove your familial relationships to Hitler, Pol Pot, Idi Amin, or any other despot you pull out of a hat.
Quote:
And if it's well known, they are not proud of that part of their past.
Good for them! I wouldn't be proud of such a past if it were my own, but I've only been on this planet since 1957. I've never committed genocide, so I have nothing to worry about.

(My head rolls when seeing these never-ending fallacious arguments.

Genocide.
Therefore, illegal immigration.

QED

Do you really expect anyone to take that seriously?)
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Old 02-05-2008, 02:12 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,906,992 times
Reputation: 2989
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
SimpleMan are you Simple-Minded?
i don't hate anybody! There is a difference between 'hate' and "don't like".
i don't hate USA or Europe, but i don't like tose who think they can inherit their ancestors' lands and goods, withouts feeling the shame or their guilts. i mean, i won't go and give them a hug, but i won't either spit in their face.

i agree when you say "the actions of their ancestors hundereds or thousands of years is not their fault." but in this case, you don't have to claim their legacy. it's as if you want your gran's house without her debts. Try to be logical, as you have half a brain: You don't want people to come in a territory your ancestors won by violence, but you don't want to hear that the people who were there before your ancestors have rights too, don't want to hear that today's immigrants do the same your ancestors used to do.

You say the country is yours but you don't want to know how it became yours. Was it a time when illegal immigration was a good thing, between 1492 and 1900? And after that, people are not welcome since they don't speak english?

To answer you, if 30,000 years ago my ancestors stole your ancestor's cave, i won't tell people "Don't go in the cave, it's mine, my ancestors stole it!" like people in USA.
I think Fair is correct---we ARE all guilty. Think of the examples:

*White Americans once owned slaves--therefore ALL MODERN WHITE PEOPLE everywhere are slave owners...

*Black Americans once WERE slaves..therefore ALL MODERN BLACKS are still slaves...

*Christ was crucified in Israel---therefore ALL JEWS KILLED CHRIST.

*The Romans sacrificed Christians in the Coliseum...Therefore ALL MODERN ITALIANS ARE MURDERERS..

*The Nazis committed the Holocaust..therefore ALL MODERN GERMANS are KILLERS....

*Muslims invaded Southeastern Europe--Therefore MUSLIMS ARE BLOODTHIRSTY....

*ALL WHITE People killed ALL the Indians in the New World. Therefore, ALL inhabitants of The Americas are White, and people like my wife simply don't exist.....because her ancestors were ALL KILLED, by MY ANCESTORS. (No wonder we have occasional arguments !)

One thing I don't understand, Fair, is why a person such as yourself would seek to live in a place where they don't "like" the population (the French). If you are THAT disenchanted by French people, why not go to a place where you can live among people you DO like, and whose ancestors you can respect? Surely there MUST be a place for you better than among all those arrogant Europeans.....Just a suggestion.

Thanks for reminding us of our "guilt". It's good to hear about this now and then, as a reminder...
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Old 02-05-2008, 06:25 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 37,397,243 times
Reputation: 3789
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
Ha, ha ha. "Your" language...
Anyway, speaking two languages won't make you less intelligent, people of almost every country learn 2 or more languages at school.
Why don't you learn to speak Spanish, it won't hurt your tongue, and you will be able to travel in more countries easier.
But i agree, Spanish mustn't replace English in USA, but they can both exist, like in Florida...
With the exception of Switzerland: name me one affluent country where two (or more) languages are held in equal legal importance.

Even Canada is having problems with its (diminishing) French speaking minority in Quebec.
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Old 02-05-2008, 07:20 PM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,094,505 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
SimpleMan are you Simple-Minded?
Instead of playing into your game and getting myself in trouble, I took the liberty of reporting your personal attack. And if using logic and common sense make me "simple minded", then so be it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair
i don't hate anybody! There is a difference between 'hate' and "don't like". i don't hate USA or Europe, but i don't like tose who think they can inherit their ancestors' lands and goods, withouts feeling the shame or their guilts.
The past is the past, get over it. Nothing can be done today to right the wrongs of one's ancestors hundereds or thousands of years ago, everyone else in the world has since moved on. The oppressors and the oppressed are long sice dead, there are no victims left alive to make amends with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair
i agree when you say "the actions of their ancestors hundereds or thousands of years is not their fault." but in this case, you don't have to claim their legacy. it's as if you want your gran's house without her debts. Try to be logical, as you have half a brain: You don't want people to come in a territory your ancestors won by violence, but you don't want to hear that the people who were there before your ancestors have rights too, don't want to hear that today's immigrants do the same your ancestors used to do.
Newsflash genius, EVERYONE migrated from our original location (Africa) and claimed land. There is not a race alive who is not guilty of migrating and claiming land. But how exactly does this apply to Illegal immigration? Almost all south Americans have European blood in them, so by your own perception they have no more right to the US or Mexico than I do, and since the people living in today's world that have moved on now have countries, countries with laws, what does the actions of anyone's ancestors have to do with countries of today enforcing their laws?

Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair
You say the country is yours but you don't want to know how it became yours. Was it a time when illegal immigration was a good thing, between 1492 and 1900? And after that, people are not welcome since they don't speak english?
I'm quite aware of how this country came to be, what's your point? It is what it is, nobody is giving any land back. If it wasn't England, France or Spain, it would have been somebody else who claimed this country. That's the way the world worked then, but we, well most of us, have moved on since then. And since this country was established we have had immigration laws. People were checked before they were allowed into this country, so it was LEGAL immigration, but I wouldn't expect you to understand the difference.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:11 AM
 
79 posts, read 98,810 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by GuyPinestra View Post
Really??? And the Toltecs and Aztecs??? Dancing around in the flayed skins of their enemies??? How proud should the Mexicans be of THAT???
The fact is that they are not proud. Only you are proud.

I don't say anybody is personally responsible of his ancestor's faults, you don't have to feel ashamed or guilty for what they've done so many years ago, but you don't either have to feel proud, for the same reasons. you just have to know what your ancestors have done, and feel humble towards it. Why claiming "it's our territory, no matter why it's ours, and now, we don't want people to come and live here" that has no sense.

NVXplorer, what you tell me are assumptions. If it's true, all weddings are consanguineous. And believe me, i wouldn't feel proud to have such people in my family.

macmeal, what do you call Modern Black People? "Black" people in USA have European ancestors. To be white, you have to be only white ancestors, but to be black, no matter if there are white people among your ancestors?
What you don't understand, is i live in France, but i do my best to make people get conscious of what they ancestors have done, and how we today can repair it. You know, many people in France don't want people from Maghreb or the rest of Africa to come in France. However, the european looted (and still loot) this continent (just like Australia and America), but many don't know that, and those who know don't want to feel guilty because the past is the past. However, this past still has consequences on the present.

Arizonabear, i can tell you India (Hindi and English) Haiti (french and creole) China (too many) and... Florida (Article II, Section 9 of the constitution)

SimpleMan, as i said, yesterday's acts have consequences today, so you can't just get over it, you say that because the situation satisfies you, i'm sure if you lived in a reserve or in a ghetto, you would not think like a selfish man. you would want to know why you were born in misery, and you would find out it's because of the past.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:18 AM
 
Location: Helena, Montana
2,010 posts, read 2,094,505 times
Reputation: 780
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair View Post
SimpleMan, as i said, yesterday's acts have consequences today, so you can't just get over it,
Watch me.

Might as well agree to disagree on this, because I will never see things from your point of view and believe that you couldn't be more wrong.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:19 AM
 
79 posts, read 98,810 times
Reputation: 12
You must think it's too bad for the Aboriginals, they had only to defend themselves. You think the past is the past, but nowadays, they are still excluded.

But apart from that, i can't understand why the so many people in France hate USA. i think it's because they feel resentful or inferior... i don't know. Anyway, they don't love people who are not from France.

i want to add, for those who say "USA is a country of full freedom, respect,..." that it has been one of the biggest countries of slavery, with laws for that. it's a country of respect for those who have got money. Money is respected, not people.
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Old 02-06-2008, 02:22 AM
 
79 posts, read 98,810 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by SimpleMan View Post
Watch me.

Might as well agree to disagree on this, because I will never see things from your point of view and believe that you couldn't be more wrong.
i know you will never admit you're wrong, you will never share my point of view, it would be as if G W Bush admitted he was wrong in Iraq. That's the way you are. Plus you have always been taught "USA is the greatest country, we can't be wrong and above all, whatever the Government tell you, believe it"
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