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1650 : Slavery is legal
1776 : USA are independent from UK
1865 : Slavery is abolished (13th amendment)
1995 : the 13th amendment is ratified
What kind of freedom do you refer ?
i repeat America is a continent, not a country.
And do you think the Europeans got into America legally in the 15th century ?
lilypad :i'm not revisionnist, but only you think you work for the greatest good. You are generally auto satisfied. Excuse me, i did'nt understand what will be the ruination of "your" country.
cousinsal : European ideals contain freedom since a few years ago, far after the birth of USA. Slavery or colonialism are not that far...
arizonabear : all the people you quote did't come in order to conquer all the continent, spread diseases, ...
Ah geez, not another one....
Why is it that the United States of America seems to be the only country singled out for its origins while the beginnings of many other countries around the world were much more violent?
When was the last time you met an Ostrogoth or a Visogoth? By the mid sixth century, they were conquered first by the Huns and then by Rome, with devastating results for modern day Italy. Yet Italy managed to survive its barbaric origins and has prospered.
Celtish and Germanic peoples managed to survive Roman invasion and were, while not better off for it at the time, did end up with roads, viaducts, architecture, etc.
Man's inhumanity to man has been well documented throughout history and the origins of this country show yet another facet of that age old dilemma. Is it because the origins of this country are so recent, that people feel the need to continue to harp upon its beginnings?
The United States of America is a country. North America is a continent. South America is a continent. It is not all wrapped up into one big land mass. Do you deny the sovereignty of the South American countries as well?
The beginnings of this country weren't pretty. But they were what they were and whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, this country is sovereign and this country's people, i.e.; her citizens, have the right to determine her future.
We have determined that we are fed up with those who declare that this is their country simply because of Mexico's ownership of small territories for less than 25 years of our history, or because of some imagined kinship with North American Native Americans. Trust me, as someone of Native American ancestry with relatives living on reservations, that kinship is definitely one-sided.
What law existed in the 15th century vis-a-vis immigration and war?
the europeans who invaded America then didn't ask themselves if the Americans had laws vis-s-vis immigration and war. do you think they came and ask "excuse me, can i come and invade your continent?" or just fire with their firearms. And the massacre didn't end, it has been continuing during years and years.
Explain this a bit.
i mean, i don't defend Europeans. Most Europeans countries are now democraties, but they too have blood in their History books. They invaded Australia, India, America, Africa, and they did the same thing : declare themselves as superiors to the people who were already there, and exploit them or kill them. That's the way Europeans did. Don't you know this ?
Did anyone come in order to specifically "spread disease"? Conquer? Yes. But I think you could admit that spreading disease was not a motivator for most, if any.
Maybe the europeans didn't see that on their boats many people were ill... maybe they believed they were going on desert lands... but when they arrived, why didn't they go back to europe saying there were already people living there. They wanted to appropriate the land !
nvxplorer : i did not say the contrary. i only said that USA citizens call the USA "America" and often oppose America to Mexico or Canada for example. They think USA citizens are the only Americans. And for your information "North and South America are sometimes recognized as one American continent" ==> Continent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia i did not invent it
Why is it that the United States of America seems to be the only country singled out for its origins while the beginnings of many other countries around the world were much more violent?
When was the last time you met an Ostrogoth or a Visogoth? By the mid sixth century, they were conquered first by the Huns and then by Rome, with devastating results for modern day Italy. Yet Italy managed to survive its barbaric origins and has prospered.
Celtish and Germanic peoples managed to survive Roman invasion and were, while not better off for it at the time, did end up with roads, viaducts, architecture, etc.
Man's inhumanity to man has been well documented throughout history and the origins of this country show yet another facet of that age old dilemma. Is it because the origins of this country are so recent, that people feel the need to continue to harp upon its beginnings?
The United States of America is a country. North America is a continent. South America is a continent. It is not all wrapped up into one big land mass. Do you deny the sovereignty of the South American countries as well?
The beginnings of this country weren't pretty. But they were what they were and whether you choose to acknowledge it or not, this country is sovereign and this country's people, i.e.; her citizens, have the right to determine her future.
We have determined that we are fed up with those who declare that this is their country simply because of Mexico's ownership of small territories for less than 25 years of our history, or because of some imagined kinship with North American Native Americans. Trust me, as someone of Native American ancestry with relatives living on reservations, that kinship is definitely one-sided.
Man i don't think USA has a better or worse History than European countries ; European countries invaded all the continents (except Asia) that's the way europeans did, they killed or exploited people when they came somewhere.
Now i don't see why USA is more yours than the Mexicans one. i mean, all American people have Europeans, Africans, Indians ancestors, and what i think is they divided the land of America without asking the original people they point. So...
Maybe the europeans didn't see that on their boats many people were ill... maybe they believed they were going on desert lands... but when they arrived, why didn't they go back to europe saying there were already people living there. They wanted to appropriate the land !
And you think the average European in 1493 knew that Indians lacked immunities to Old World Diseases?
They wanted to appropriate land. Yes. So what? Isn't that what people did up until maybe the second half of the 20th century, when humanity realized that MAYBE territory acquisition by force isn't humane? We can apply 20th and 21st century moral standards on people in the past all day if you'd like. To what end? What purpose will be served?
I think maybe it is YOU who needs to study WORLD history and find me a major "group" as broad as "European" who never tried to "acquire land" that belonged to others!
Quote:
Originally Posted by the Fair
nvxplorer : i did not say the contrary. i only said that USA citizens call the USA "America" and often oppose America to Mexico or Canada for example. They think USA citizens are the only Americans. And for your information "North and South America are sometimes recognized as one American continent" ==> Continent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia i did not invent it
I don't understand Non-United States' citizens' obsessions with Americans "owning" the identifier of "American." The world knows exactly what you're talking about when you say, "I'm an American." They're gonna think New York and Hollywood. Not Brasilia, Toronto, or Bogota.
nvxplorer : i did not say the contrary. i only said that USA citizens call the USA "America" and often oppose America to Mexico or Canada for example. They think USA citizens are the only Americans.
As you state yourself, we citizens call ourselves Americans because, to us, "American" is defined as being a citizen of the US. Therefore, to us, we are the only Americans. Indeed, the rest of the hemisphere seems to agree. Ask someone from San Salvador what nationality she is, and I'm certain you won't hear "Americana." Ask her the nationality of someone from Chicago, however, and you certainly will.
Man i don't think USA has a better or worse History than European countries ; European countries invaded all the continents (except Asia) that's the way europeans did, they killed or exploited people when they came somewhere.
i don't know if i was clear.
Actually, you're overly kind. In addition to "the OTHER continents", Europeans invaded Asia as WELL--India, China, the Phillippines, Viet Nam, Burma, Ceylon, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia......sounds like Asia to me. ALL were treated to decades-long "visits" from the West....
I don't understand Non-United States' citizens' obsessions with Americans "owning" the identifier of "American." The world knows exactly what you're talking about when you say, "I'm an American." They're gonna think New York and Hollywood. Not Brasilia, Toronto, or Bogota.
Oftentimes, once-valid arguments run out of "steam" and get increasingly one-sided. Having solved most of their REAL disagreements, they fall into petty 'nit-picking', such as this CLEARLY is. It's like the argument over whether to call "the handicapped", the "differently-abled". By the time you get to THAT point in the argument, you know you've missed most of the "good stuff".
Most REASONABLE people in ALL countries understand the term "American". Is this absolutely, 100%, across-the-board 'accurate'? Probably not... Along with LOTS of modern-day, universally-accepted terms. We do it to 'save syllables'....
Actually, you're overly kind. In addition to "the OTHER continents", Europeans invaded Asia as WELL--India, China, the Phillippines, Viet Nam, Burma, Ceylon, Singapore, Malaysia, Indonesia......sounds like Asia to me. ALL were treated to decades-long "visits" from the West....
America is still a continent... or two continents.
Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer
As you state yourself, we citizens call ourselves Americans because, to us, "American" is defined as being a citizen of the US. Therefore, to us, we are the only Americans. Indeed, the rest of the hemisphere seems to agree. Ask someone from San Salvador what nationality she is, and I'm certain you won't hear "Americana." Ask her the nationality of someone from Chicago, however, and you certainly will.
Yes, but that proves you're big headed, you think the continent is yours, and as USA has so many times horrified the other countries in the past (e.g. by placing their pawns at the head of foreign governments all over the world) and especially South America countries, they don't want to be associated/confused with USA. Hugo Chavez hates USA! He is not going to say he is American even if it's true.
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