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Old 01-24-2009, 09:52 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,906,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
There is a HUGE difference between U.S. citizens marching (peacefully or otherwise), and illegal aliens protesting our government for anything. US citizens have a “right” to petition our government; illegal aliens don’t. Likewise, my son has a right to expect lunch money from me; the neighborhood kids don’t.

Apparently you can’t differentiate between legal residents of this country, and foreign interlopers. And yes, it is the height of arrogance.
Well stated and ITA. Whatever jobs that are created will go to Americans. The republicans in Congress are currently drafting legislation that will ensure that illegal aliens will NOT benefit in any way from the economic stimulus.

Since they are NOT Americans they will not be able to find work. Additionally, funding and loans for college students is limited and that too will go to American children FIRST.

Additionally, pretty much every single state in the union is loosing it's tax base, thus, more dependency on the federal government to bail them out and said legislation will forbid aiding and abetting of illegal aliens on every level, including welfare and other social services. They need to realize that their free ride is over and it's time for them to go home while they can still walk across the border.
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Old 01-24-2009, 03:46 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,901,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Oh, I think it is far more then a few who are demanding. And chanting 'yes we can' in Spanish is hardly the anti illegals making a mountain out of a molehill. It reminds me of a rebellious teenager saying that they didn't ask to be born, and now the parent has to take care of them.....well, in the case of illegals no we don't.
Still, didn't answer the gist of my post which was when is enough enough? How many thousands of people are coming through the border every day hoping to make it in time for the amnesty party? How many more people are dying every day waiting for their visa to come through?

You can't let go of the idea that it isn't just to reward them. It's to control a situation that is already out of control here in America!

You can focus on the people dying all across the world all you want, it doesn't change the situation here. It's too bad other countries aren't on the border with the United States, but that's the way it is.

Why are you asking me when enough is enough? Do you want to discuss it using ideas like time travel?

The situation is what it is, and the administration is trying to find a way to cut losses and control it. By going at the end of the line for the immigration process, they won't become citizens before people who were already doing the process.

Do you want to dwell on the people who aren't in any kind of process at the moment? Everybody who might decide to start it in the future?
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:16 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,045,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You can't let go of the idea that it isn't just to reward them. It's to control a situation that is already out of control here in America!

You can focus on the people dying all across the world all you want, it doesn't change the situation here. It's too bad other countries aren't on the border with the United States, but that's the way it is.

Why are you asking me when enough is enough? Do you want to discuss it using ideas like time travel?

The situation is what it is, and the administration is trying to find a way to cut losses and control it. By going at the end of the line for the immigration process, they won't become citizens before people who were already doing the process.

Do you want to dwell on the people who aren't in any kind of process at the moment? Everybody who might decide to start it in the future?

No, I prefer to dwell in reality, and the reality is that this is not even a stop gap measure to control illegal immigration. I mean, if you had a rat infestation in your house, would you name them, feed them and decide that they are pets thus no rat problem? If your basement was flooding, would you slap some putty on the leak and say look how wonderful -- an indoor pool! No. In both scenarios the problem is hidden or given a new spin but the problem exists and the patches will not last. That is what Obama is proposing. Lets just call them legal residents and ta da! No illegal immigration problem. Because all of their relatives and friends from the various 'old countries' are not going to see this as a situation that can and no doubt will keep happening. (remember Reagans so called one and only amnesty?) They are going to come here in even more droves.

They need to be deported at will, businesses who hire them ought to be fined and possibly put out of business and politicians who are too busy licking the illegal lobbyists boots for the promise of votes ought to be voted out. As the economy is tightened and jobs become more scarce, do you actually believe that the american public is going to be thrilled at the prospect of having millions on the dole with them? Competing for scarce jobs with them?

So no, I don't want time travel, but I do want justice. After all, if I were to sneak into Canada or Mexico and work and live in either place illegally I would be deported and not allowed to return. I can't imagine how you think that laws should be for 'others' but not illegals in the US.

And btw, you still haven't answered the very pertinent questions of 'can we afford them?'. Can we afford annexing in an enormous underclass? That answer would be no.
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Old 01-24-2009, 04:29 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,901,636 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
No, I prefer to dwell in reality, and the reality is that this is not even a stop gap measure to control illegal immigration. I mean, if you had a rat infestation in your house, would you name them, feed them and decide that they are pets thus no rat problem? .
This is not like a rat problem, and they are not like rats. They are humans. And comparing the illegal IMMIGRANT situation to a rat infestation doesn't help things at all.

Those who will be allowed a chance to pay a fee and start an immigration process are those who are in good standing.
Hopefully those who have come here to commit crimes will be deported.
Hopefully those who came here to make a living will be the ones staying.

The plan also says to crack down on businesses from hiring new illegals. It also says strengthening the border. It also says working more with Mexico to prevent future illegal immigration. Whether you guys like it or not, a better Mexico will mean less illegal immigration. Whether you guys like it or not, we need to work with Mexico.

COMPROMISE. Stop thinking of this as a rat problem, and think of it as a human problem.
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:06 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,045,726 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
This is not like a rat problem, and they are not like rats. They are humans. And comparing the illegal IMMIGRANT situation to a rat infestation doesn't help things at all.

Those who will be allowed a chance to pay a fee and start an immigration process are those who are in good standing.
Hopefully those who have come here to commit crimes will be deported.
Hopefully those who came here to make a living will be the ones staying.

The plan also says to crack down on businesses from hiring new illegals. It also says strengthening the border. It also says working more with Mexico to prevent future illegal immigration. Whether you guys like it or not, a better Mexico will mean less illegal immigration. Whether you guys like it or not, we need to work with Mexico.

COMPROMISE. Stop thinking of this as a rat problem, and think of it as a human problem.

Fixated on the rat portion of my post, eh? Then how about the flooded basement analogy? And no, I don't believe that illegal immigrants are rats anymore then I believe that they are water droplets

But it does beg the comparison that if you call a problem by any other name, the problem still exists. Calling illegal immigrants legal residents does not alter the fact that they came here illegally, and the next wave of illegal immigrants are not going to forget that fact. It is the old 'They got amnesty, so why not us too?' line of thinking. That is what the current batch of illegals are saying, right? The Reagan amnesty set a recent precedence for them, and they have been counting on another one ever since.

In this case, the basement is flooded and that will crack the foundation -- it is not something as benign or beneficial as an indoor pool. The illegal immigration tide will not be stopped by this 'pathway to citizenship', rather it will encourage more to come. Plus, can we accomadate these people with our already cracked foundation? If you are right, and illegals have not been a drain on social services and programs to date......they sure as hell will be once they are entitled to programs such as WIC, foodstamps, medicaid/medicare, subsidized housing and the like. After all, the majority of illegal immigrants are uneducated and unskilled workers. They will demand the services they will become eligible for. Can we pay for it? Since we are already trillions of dollars in debt, that answer would be no.

Now, as to helping Mexico ---- how dare you suggest that by helping Mexico that would cut down on illegals coming into the US. I mean, how racist of you to try to link 'Mexico' and 'illegal immigration' together! (I mean, that is all I hear from you and other pro illegals anyways )
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Old 01-24-2009, 06:49 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,901,636 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by camping! View Post
Fixated on the rat portion of my post, eh? Then how about the flooded basement analogy? And no, I don't believe that illegal immigrants are rats anymore then I believe that they are water droplets

But it does beg the comparison that if you call a problem by any other name, the problem still exists. Calling illegal immigrants legal residents does not alter the fact that they came here illegally, and the next wave of illegal immigrants are not going to forget that fact. It is the old 'They got amnesty, so why not us too?' line of thinking. That is what the current batch of illegals are saying, right? The Reagan amnesty set a recent precedence for them, and they have been counting on another one ever since.

In this case, the basement is flooded and that will crack the foundation -- it is not something as benign or beneficial as an indoor pool. The illegal immigration tide will not be stopped by this 'pathway to citizenship', rather it will encourage more to come. Plus, can we accomadate these people with our already cracked foundation? If you are right, and illegals have not been a drain on social services and programs to date......they sure as hell will be once they are entitled to programs such as WIC, foodstamps, medicaid/medicare, subsidized housing and the like. After all, the majority of illegal immigrants are uneducated and unskilled workers. They will demand the services they will become eligible for. Can we pay for it? Since we are already trillions of dollars in debt, that answer would be no.

Now, as to helping Mexico ---- how dare you suggest that by helping Mexico that would cut down on illegals coming into the US. I mean, how racist of you to try to link 'Mexico' and 'illegal immigration' together! (I mean, that is all I hear from you and other pro illegals anyways )
Good point?

x10

There's a huge difference between acknowledging Mexicans make up the largest percentage of illegal aliens(I know you've read my theory that it has to do with location more than anything, rather than culture), and using that fact as an excuse to bash Mexicans in general as well as Mexican culture.
But whatever, if you want to think you made a good point, or a point at all with that comment, please don't mind me.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's a bunch of putting words in my mouth(when did I say the impact of illegals on the infrastructure isn't a valid concern?), and the same old complaining.

I like the direction the administration is heading on immigration. Cracking down on employers is one good step to stop further illegal immigration. Improving technology and manpower on the border is another one. Working closely with Mexico is a good idea for the long run, a good farsighted gameplan.
These are things we should be agreeing on.

Giving those in this country illegally who are in good standing(those who are not, will be deported. good.) a chance to redeem themselves by paying a fee and starting the immigration process from the beginning is something I agree with. I believe in forgiveness and redemption, and the administration wants to offer them that. Make taxpayers out of those who are here, get them on the grid, and make it harder for anyone else to come illegally using the other parts of the plan(cracking down on employers, strengthening border).


I like this plan, and you're still complaining about something.
If you want to regurgitate some of the stuff that's been posted on here that's fine.
There's other people in the world you want here instead, you don't like amnesty, Reagan, uneducated, let's try to deport them all, wic checks, yadda yadda yadda.
I get it.
Can we leave it at that?
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:16 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,716,301 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Good point?

x10

There's a huge difference between acknowledging Mexicans make up the largest percentage of illegal aliens(I know you've read my theory that it has to do with location more than anything, rather than culture), and using that fact as an excuse to bash Mexicans in general as well as Mexican culture.
But whatever, if you want to think you made a good point, or a point at all with that comment, please don't mind me.

As for the rest of the stuff, it's a bunch of putting words in my mouth(when did I say the impact of illegals on the infrastructure isn't a valid concern?), and the same old complaining.

I like the direction the administration is heading on immigration. Cracking down on employers is one good step to stop further illegal immigration. Improving technology and manpower on the border is another one. Working closely with Mexico is a good idea for the long run, a good farsighted gameplan.
These are things we should be agreeing on.

Giving those in this country illegally who are in good standing(those who are not, will be deported. good.) a chance to redeem themselves by paying a fee and starting the immigration process from the beginning is something I agree with. I believe in forgiveness and redemption, and the administration wants to offer them that. Make taxpayers out of those who are here, get them on the grid, and make it harder for anyone else to come illegally using the other parts of the plan(cracking down on employers, strengthening border).


I like this plan, and you're still complaining about something.
If you want to regurgitate some of the stuff that's been posted on here that's fine.
There's other people in the world you want here instead, you don't like amnesty, Reagan, uneducated, let's try to deport them all, wic checks, yadda yadda yadda.
I get it.
Can we leave it at that?
As the US economy continues to jump the track, as more and more Americans lose their jobs and have to turn to an increasingly frayed safety net of benefits, the whole idea of granting citizenship to millions of illegals who have minimal education and no job skills is going to seem less and less enchanting. Amnesty ('a path to citizenship') most assuredly DID NOT work in 1986, kindly explain why it is that you think it will work now. Or is it fine by you if the US continues to be inundated with millions of people who lack the skills necessary to make a contribution to the US? At what point do you draw the line? Is it OK with you if 50 million impoverished people enter the US illegally and await the next serial amnesty? 100 million? What is the endpoint?
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:18 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,838 posts, read 30,126,734 times
Reputation: 17714
[quote=antialphabet;7154973]. Make taxpayers out of those who are here, get them on the grid, and make it harder for anyone else to come illegally using the other parts of the plan(cracking down on employers, strengthening border).

quote]

Somehow you think all those people standing around in the Home Depot parking lot are Doctors and Attorneys? Making these trespassers Citizens opens up the door for even more and some permanent social services based on their low incomes alone. No way, no how!

Pay taxes......baahwhwhhahahahahahahahahahahaha

ya right
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:30 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,716,301 times
Reputation: 1285
[quote=1AngryTaxPayer;7155295]
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
. Make taxpayers out of those who are here, get them on the grid, and make it harder for anyone else to come illegally using the other parts of the plan(cracking down on employers, strengthening border).

quote]

Somehow you think all those people standing around in the Home Depot parking lot are Doctors and Attorneys? Making these trespassers Citizens opens up the door for even more and some permanent social services based on their low incomes alone. No way, no how!

Pay taxes......baahwhwhhahahahahahahahahahahaha

ya right
I agree. This is from another thread:

Quote:
According the the Pew Hispanic Study; Hispanics make up the majority of those who are in this country without permission and 1/3 of those "non-native born" aged 25 and older have less than a 9th grade education and 1/2 less than 12th. These numbers are five times higher than that of native born Hispanics and 10 times higher than non-Hispanic whites in America and that translates to poverty!Therefore the vast majority of Hispanics here illegally don't and wont 't be paying income taxes anyway so the argument is moot!
People act as if Mexican optometrists and accountants are the ones sneaking across the border, if we would just make them legal they will become net contributors to society. What a joke! The ones we get are the people who have no skills and have not been able to make a go of it in Mexico. Believe it or not, the vast majority of Mexicans are (gasp!) living in Mexico! They have careers there, why should they sneak into the US? Why leave their home country to come here? As you state, why would a doctor from Mexico come here to stand in a Home Depot parking lot? The ones we get are not exactly going to be paying $40,000+ in income taxes if they are given citizenship. Probably not even $400.
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Old 01-24-2009, 07:46 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,838 posts, read 30,126,734 times
Reputation: 17714
[quote=andreabeth;7155457]
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post

I agree. This is from another thread:



People act as if Mexican optometrists and accountants are the ones sneaking across the border, if we would just make them legal they will become net contributors to society. What a joke! The ones we get are the people who have no skills and have not been able to make a go of it in Mexico. Believe it or not, the vast majority of Mexicans are (gasp!) living in Mexico! They have careers there, why should they sneak into the US? Why leave their home country to come here? As you state, why would a doctor from Mexico come here to stand in a Home Depot parking lot? The ones we get are not exactly going to be paying $40,000+ in income taxes if they are given citizenship. Probably not even $400.
And the remittances keep going South leaving the US economy FOREVER. Billions of dollars.
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