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Old 01-25-2009, 08:16 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,693,544 times
Reputation: 3010

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Non-partisan center studies the cost of illegal immigration as related to governmental benefits as well as the cost born by the average U.S. taxpayer and worker.

Center for Immigration Studies-Who we are:
Quote:
The Center for Immigration Studies is an independent, non-partisan, non-profit research organization founded in 1985. It is the nation's only think tank devoted exclusively to research and policy analysis of the economic, social, demographic, fiscal, and other impacts of immigration on the United States.
Center for Immigration Studies

To continue to believe that illegal immigration does not present a serious financial burden to American taxpayers shows a distinct inability to absorb reality.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:21 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,116 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Non-partisan center studies the cost of illegal immigration as related to governmental benefits as well as the cost born by the average U.S. taxpayer and worker.

Center for Immigration Studies-Who we are:

Center for Immigration Studies

To continue to believe that illegal immigration does not present a serious financial burden to American taxpayers shows a distinct inability to absorb reality.
LOL, non- partisan center. We all know they are anti-immigrant.

Quote:
With Republicans shut out of power, now is the time to take a new look at their approach to immigration, to develop a new and distinctive alternative to the majority party. In other areas, such as health care or the environment, such a reassessment might conceivably yield different policies than in the past. But on immigration, what is needed is not so much a reversal in specifics but a different framework within which to fit the specifics.

For too long the Republican story line has been “Too Much Lawbreaking,” when instead the real problem is “Too Much Immigration” — only one part of which involves lawbreaking. This exclusive focus on illegal immigration — opposing amnesty and pushing for more enforcement — is both incomplete and counterproductive. Incomplete because the effects of illegal immigration aren’t that different from those of legal immigration
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q...TUzYzU3Mjg5ZDg=

Straight from the horses mouth.

Last edited by blacknight04; 01-25-2009 at 08:30 AM..
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:31 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,693,544 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
LOL, non- partisan center. We all know they are anti-immigrant.
I know that I am banging my head against a very THICK brick wall here, bk--but you know--you could actually (gasp, yes it's true!) click on the link and do the reading.

I spent 45 minutes researching this in order to find a non-partisan group studying the effects of illegal immigration--and there are quite a few who are anti-ILLEGAL immigration sites (again--note the use of the word illegal--denoting an act which violates law). I would venture that this is one of the only non-partisan think tanks regarding this issue in the U.S.

But then again, why would you actually want to research the site? You'd have to admit that you are wrong and we both know that hell will freeze over before that happens.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:34 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,116 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I know that I am banging my head against a very THICK brick wall here, bk--but you know--you could actually (gasp, yes it's true!) click on the link and do the reading.

I spent 45 minutes researching this in order to find a non-partisan group studying the effects of illegal immigration--and there are quite a few who are anti-ILLEGAL immigration sites (again--note the use of the word illegal--denoting an act which violates U.S. law). I would venture that this is one of the only non-partisan think tanks regarding this issue in the U.S.

But then again, why would you actually want to research the site? You'd have to admit that you are wrong and we both know that hell will freeze over before that happens.
GOP Needs a Rethink on Immigration by Mark Krikorian on National Review Online

Quote:
With Republicans shut out of power, now is the time to take a new look at their approach to immigration, to develop a new and distinctive alternative to the majority party. In other areas, such as health care or the environment, such a reassessment might conceivably yield different policies than in the past. But on immigration, what is needed is not so much a reversal in specifics but a different framework within which to fit the specifics.

For too long the Republican story line has been “Too Much Lawbreaking,” when instead the real problem is “Too Much Immigration” — only one part of which involves lawbreaking. This exclusive focus on illegal immigration — opposing amnesty and pushing for more enforcement — is both incomplete and counterproductive. Incomplete because the effects of illegal immigration aren’t that different from those of legal immigration
At least they are upfront about being anti-immigrant.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
GOP Needs a Rethink on Immigration by Mark Krikorian on National Review Online



At least they are upfront about being anti-immigrant.
You just confirmed that you are truly delusional in your deliberate attempts to keep blurring the line between legal and illegal immigration.

Grow up, please.
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Old 01-25-2009, 08:50 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,116 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
You just confirmed that you are truly delusional in your deliberate attempts to keep blurring the line between legal and illegal immigration.

Grow up, please.
I know you are not talking. The director of this so called non partisan center is saying the effects of illegal immigration is not different from the effects of legal immigration. Did you even read the link i posted before spouting off?

Center Staff

Mark Krikorian, Executive Director of CIS.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:20 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,693,544 times
Reputation: 3010
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
GOP Needs a Rethink on Immigration by Mark Krikorian on National Review Online

At least they are upfront about being anti-immigrant.
Believing that it is in the best interests of one's country to limit immigration (especially that of uneducated, poor immigrants, legal or illegal) does not make one anti-immigrant.

That's a stretch, even for you.

Are you so blinded by your inability to understand the ramifications of unlimted immigration, legal or illegal, that you cannot grasp that the United States of America is a country of limited resources? That to continue to accept, without limitation, any and all who wish to come here is tantamount to national suicide?

Capitol Weekly: DWR warns of drought, water rationing in 2009

Water Quality Association

Few places in America illustrate overpopulation better than Los Angeles, California. To expose that state’s horrific future, it grows by 1,600 people daily. Another 400 cars add to their already gridlocked highways EVERY DAY! You can live and you can die in traffic. At 44,000 deaths annually on our nation’s highways, it’s a toss-up whether or not you make it home in LA each week. Legal and illegal immigration drives most of California’s growth.

Fogel/Martin “U.S. Population Projections” predict California’s growth to rise from 37.5 million to a low trend of 65.6 million and as high as 79.1 million in 40 years. Like cattle down the slaughter chute, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Boston and Denver follow California into the demographic “Human Katrina” maelstrom.

American Farmland Trust: Resources - Farming on the Edge Report

As Lester Brown reports, “Erosion steals 24 billion tons of soil from the world’s farmers annually; a figure that the ecology-minded cite as plain evidence that humanity is exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet.”

In Tragedy of the Commons, ecologist Garrett Hardin proposes that if you introduce two horses into a two acre fenced paddock (finite area, like a finite earth), and a water tank—both horses can eat their fill, poop and pee with unlimited personal safety. However, if you run 100 horses into that two acre paddock, they overwhelm the water tank, eat all the grass as well as trample it, create terrible waste problems and crowd themselves into angry confrontations with nowhere to escape. Voila! Tragedy of the Commons!

On the problem of U.S. overpopulation, Dr. Albert Bartlett, Professor Emeritus of Physics University of Colorado had this to say, “Can you think of any problem in any area of human endeavor on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way aided, assisted, or advanced by further increases of population, locally, nationally, or globally?”

With the U.S. population today exceeding 300 million people--with another 100 million expected to be added through immigration, legal and illegal, within the next 20 to 30 years--how can you be so blind to the problems of adding even more people to a severely strained ecosystem and infrastructure? Have you no care for the generations to come--those we will hobble by our inability to control our burgeoning population and its devastating effects on those systems within our own country on which we rely for water, food, power, etc.?

Your short-sighted love of illegal immigration and faux concern for legal immigrants is touching. Imprudent and mind-bogglingly myopic--but touching. Try generating a little bit of concern for those for whom this country is already home and for the ecological future of said country.

Our resources are not boundless and limitless, but finite and insufficient to support an ever burgeoning population--a population which will ultimately break the back of American ability and means to effectively support our own population.

And by the way, I find it almost farcical that you would find one article by one person within an organization of about 50 people, who advocates limiting all immigration and velcro yourself to it without even reading thoroughly, his economic and ecological rationale behind limitations. You really take the cake, bk.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,643,200 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Believing that it is in the best interests of one's country to limit immigration (especially that of uneducated, poor immigrants, legal or illegal) does not make one anti-immigrant.

That's a stretch, even for you.

Are you so blinded by your inability to understand the ramifications of unlimted immigration, legal or illegal, that you cannot grasp that the United States of America is a country of limited resources? That to continue to accept, without limitation, any and all who wish to come here is tantamount to national suicide?

Capitol Weekly: DWR warns of drought, water rationing in 2009

Water Quality Association

Few places in America illustrate overpopulation better than Los Angeles, California. To expose that state’s horrific future, it grows by 1,600 people daily. Another 400 cars add to their already gridlocked highways EVERY DAY! You can live and you can die in traffic. At 44,000 deaths annually on our nation’s highways, it’s a toss-up whether or not you make it home in LA each week. Legal and illegal immigration drives most of California’s growth.

Fogel/Martin “U.S. Population Projections” predict California’s growth to rise from 37.5 million to a low trend of 65.6 million and as high as 79.1 million in 40 years. Like cattle down the slaughter chute, Chicago, New York, Atlanta, Dallas, Houston, Boston and Denver follow California into the demographic “Human Katrina” maelstrom.

American Farmland Trust: Resources - Farming on the Edge Report

As Lester Brown reports, “Erosion steals 24 billion tons of soil from the world’s farmers annually; a figure that the ecology-minded cite as plain evidence that humanity is exceeding the carrying capacity of the planet.”

In Tragedy of the Commons, ecologist Garrett Hardin proposes that if you introduce two horses into a two acre fenced paddock (finite area, like a finite earth), and a water tank—both horses can eat their fill, poop and pee with unlimited personal safety. However, if you run 100 horses into that two acre paddock, they overwhelm the water tank, eat all the grass as well as trample it, create terrible waste problems and crowd themselves into angry confrontations with nowhere to escape. Voila! Tragedy of the Commons!

On the problem of U.S. overpopulation, Dr. Albert Bartlett, Professor Emeritus of Physics University of Colorado had this to say, “Can you think of any problem in any area of human endeavor on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way aided, assisted, or advanced by further increases of population, locally, nationally, or globally?”

With the U.S. population today exceeding 300 million people--with another 100 million expected to be added through immigration, legal and illegal, within the next 20 to 30 years--how can you be so blind to the problems of adding even more people to a severely strained ecosystem and infrastructure? Have you no care for the generations to come--those we will hobble by our inability to control our burgeoning population and its devastating effects on those systems within our own country on which we rely for water, food, power, etc.?

Your short-sighted love of illegal immigration and faux concern for legal immigrants is touching. Imprudent and mind-bogglingly myopic--but touching. Try generating a little bit of concern for those for whom this country is already home and for the ecological future of said country.

Our resources are not boundless and limitless, but finite and insufficient to support an ever burgeoning population--a population which will ultimately break the back of American ability and means to effectively support our own population.
We are dealing with someone with the reasoning processes of a 12 YO----------or, a very intelligent individual desperately attempting to use 'psych' warfare so us Americans will feel guilty and allow the illegals to stay here. Needless to say: the onus is now on the illegal aliens and their enablers---------and, things are becoming worse and worse for them.
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:28 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,794,116 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
We are dealing with someone with the reasoning processes of a 12 YO----------or, a very intelligent individual desperately attempting to use 'psych' warfare so us Americans will feel guilty and allow the illegals to stay here. Needless to say: the onus is now on the illegal aliens and their enablers---------and, things are becoming worse and worse for them.

Are we resorting to personal attacks now?
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Old 01-25-2009, 09:30 AM
 
706 posts, read 1,313,457 times
Reputation: 308
I see a lot of reasons to end socialist programs like welfare, medicaid, public schools, and so on, but I see not good arguments against immigration itself. Stupid regulations like the minimum wage and the "war on drugs" are also hurting the economy quite a bit, but the immigrants who have jobs do not.

As for "suppressed American wages" - any serious economist would laugh you out of the room. Why would you assume that people want to pay more (we're talking about a lot more) for things if they're built by Americans? When given a choice they don't! The only people who should be upset about low-wage manufacturing / agriculture in America are the people who export labor-intensive products themselves, most notably the Red Chinese!

Even more importantly, there is a serious moral flaw in your sense of entitlement. You feel that people should pay you more (or expect you to work less for same wage) just because you're born into the "master race", i.e. American citizenship. That's despicable! The job should go to the person who can do it best, which includes value as well as quality, regardless of where he or she happened to be born!
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