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Old 01-25-2009, 10:45 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
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Quote:
Now I have to say, with all respect to all of you, that I find unfair that my country and culture is dismissed as a cesspool or as a failed state, when a lot of the blame regarding illegal immigration lies on the other side of the border, sure it is true that 10% of our population emigrated illegally to the USA, but it is also true that the only country in the world who makes easy for illegals to settle and demand things is the USA.
I totally understand and respect your opinion and feelings with regard to my description of your country. However, it is those here illegally from your country as well as your government officials (or lack thereof) who have over several decades formed my opinion with regards to your country. From what I have seen and read, it appears that the majority of it's citizens and officials are corrupt and crime and poverty is indeed more rampid than civility.

Quote:
I mean isn't it dysfunctional that the government of the United States of America, gives welfare and handouts to illegals? why do they do it? what do they have to earn from it?

why are they so tolerant with businesses that hire illegals?

how come the USA is the only country in the world where illegals can open bank accounts, get loans approved, etc.

Please, take this into account before calling Mexico a cesspool, or at least try to find more about what is Mexico really like, or what real Mexicans think, I said real Mexicans because imho we the people who work and live in this country and break our backs to make it a better place aren't like those illegals who emigrate to the USA and demand things.
If you have read any of my past and many of my current posts, you know that I have consistently blamed the corruption within our corporations as well as many of our government officials for this invasion as well. Additionally, I have blamed the ethnocentric special interest groups and the anchor babies who hold positions in our government who are obvious racist, whose loyalty is to hispanics/latinos and whose dedication is specifically to help further the agenda of mexicans and mexico by any means necessary. They have proven time and again that they have no love for America or Americans. We are simply the financial means to what they hope will result in their ethnicity based prosperous end.

That being said, combined, they are still the minority voices, opinions and are not representative of what the majority of Americans want to see happen in terms of all that you have attributed as the cause and effect of illegal immigration in this country. Mexico on the other hand is the exact opposite. Not only is crime and corruption it's primary way of life, it is also rampant on many levels. In many cases it is simply culturally embedded behavior that has become either customary or simply a way of life, as exhibited by the massive numbers of: rapists, murderers, drunk drivers, child molesters, gang bangers, identity thieves and 3rd world living conditions that once here they have recreated in order to make themselves feel comfortable as opposed to at the very least attempting to learn the language and assimilate. Not only do I find their behavior appalling, and disgusting, but frankly, I don't want to see my country turned into a 3rd world over populated, crime and poverty stricken extension of mexico.

As usual great post my friend!

Last edited by JDubsMom; 01-25-2009 at 11:00 AM..
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Old 01-25-2009, 10:52 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
Now I have to say, with all respect to all of you, that I find unfair that my country and culture is dismissed as a cesspool or as a failed state, when a lot of the blame regarding illegal immigration lies on the other side of the border, sure it is true that 10% of our population emigrated illegally to the USA, but it is also true that the only country in the world who makes easy for illegals to settle and demand things is the USA.

I mean isn't it dysfunctional that the government of the United States of America, gives welfare and handouts to illegals? why do they do it? what do they have to earn from it?

why are they so tolerant with businesses that hire illegals?

how come the USA is the only country in the world where illegals can open bank accounts, get loans approved, etc.


Please, take this into account before calling Mexico a cesspool, or at least try to find more about what is Mexico really like, or what real Mexicans think, I said real Mexicans because imho we the people who work and live in this country and break our backs to make it a better place aren't like those illegals who emigrate to the USA and demand things.

Regards!
I couldnít agree more! Although illegal aliens must be held accountable for their flagrant violations of our laws, and they are indeed culpable for the adverse effects of illegal immigration; our government, special interest groups, and the greedy corporate elite are complicit by facilitating and encouraging this invasion.

Itís unfathomable for a sovereign nation to deliberately entice millions of illiterate and low-skilled foreigners to illegally reside in their country, by offering tax-funded freebies, and other incentives, to the detriment of its own citizenry. Greed is indeed a powerful force.

I personally do not consider all of Mexico to be a cesspool. Nor do I consider all of its citizens to be parasitic ingrates. The illegal aliens from Mexico are not representative of the millions of decent, hardworking Mexicans, many whom I have met and befriended. I know quite a few people who previously either held positive feelings toward Mexico, or were indifferent, who now cringe whenever Mexico is mentioned, or Spanish is spoken. They now feel nothing but disdain toward Mexico and its citizens, due to the arrogance and sense of entitlement so prevalent among Mexican illegal aliens. They do their fellow countrymen a grave disservice.
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:00 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,298,722 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
I totally understand and respect your opinion and feelings with regard to my description of your country. However, it is those here illegally from your country as well as your government officials (or lack thereof) who have over several decades formed my opinion with regards to your country. From what I have seen and read, it appears that the majority of it's citizens and officials are corrupt and crime and poverty is indeed more rampid than civility.
The government is corrupt, this is undeniable, (although this is changing, because the Mexican society keeps pressuring and scrutinizing them) and there is some corruption in the society, but I don't agree that the majority of the citizens are corrupt or that poverty is more rampid than civility, if that were the case this country wouldn't be able to function at all!

There is a lot of poverty though which was created during the era of financial meltdowns, this happened no so long ago in the 70's - 80's when we faced hyperinflation, devaluations of more than 3000% and a long of things that wiped out the living standards that existed before, it wasn't until 1994 after the worst financial crisis that this country faced, that we knew that economic stability was, but things have improved quite a lot, actually the living standards of Mexico can be comparable to those countries in eastern Europe, and it is much better than most of Latin America, with the exception of Chile and slightly better than Brazil, way better than China and India who are supposedly the stars of economic growth, the main driving factor of illegal immigration, rather than poverty is the fact that they pay more in the USA, which becomes even more when traded to pesos and used here where the living costs are lower, and also the fact of the freebies and that is relatively easy to just go and work in the USA.

Quote:
If you have read any of my past and many of my current posts, I have consistently blamed the corruption within our corporations as well as many of our government officials for this invasion as well. Additionally, I have blamed the ethnocentric special interest groups and the anchor babies who hold positions in our government who are obvious racist, whose loyalty is to hispanics/latinos and whose dedication is specifically to help further the agenda of mexicans and mexico by any means necessary. They have proven time and again that they have no love for America or Americans. We are simply a means to their end.
I understand your anger and frustration, but let me clarify something, many of this people don't possess any loyalty for Mexico either, heck if they did, then why go **** off the neighboor and give a great country a bad name! They don't possess any loyalty for anyone for that matter, they just want to have their cake and eat it, like you said, we are simpy a means to their end.

Quote:
That being said, combined, they are still the minority voices, opinions and representation of what Americans want to see happen in terms of all that you have attributed as the cause and effect of illegal immigrationin this country. Mexico on the other hand is the exact opposite. Not only is crime and corruption is rampid on many levels and in many cases culturally embedded and the way of life, as exhibited by the massive numbers of rapist, murderers, drunk drivers, child molestors, gang bangers, identity thieves and 3rd world living conditions that they have created here.

As usual great post my friend!
You would have to visit Mexico and see her with your own eyes to have an idea of how are really things here, or what is Mexican culture, Chicano culture, which was created by people with Mexican origins but born and raised in the USA is a completely different thing.

now let me tell you my friend that a lot of the scum of our countries decides just to go and cause trouble everywhere else, you don't have an idea of the number of americans who come to hide in Mexico because they did something bad in the USA, if you knew spanish and read the local news of Mexico you would be surprised to know the amount of rapists or child molestors from the USA that come to mexico as "tourists" and the worst part of it is that most came legally

But just because some trouble makers from the USA decided to use Mexico as their abusing ground, I wouldn't ever think that the majority of citizens in the USA are like this.

Great post too JD
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:13 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,298,722 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I couldnít agree more! Although illegal aliens must be held accountable for their flagrant violations of our laws, and they are indeed culpable for the adverse effects of illegal immigration; our government, special interest groups, and the greedy corporate elite are complicit by facilitating and encouraging this invasion.

Itís unfathomable for a sovereign nation to deliberately entice millions of illiterate and low-skilled foreigners to illegally reside in their country, by offering tax-funded freebies, and other incentives, to the detriment of its own citizenry. Greed is indeed a powerful force.

I personally do not consider all of Mexico to be a cesspool. Nor do I consider all of its citizens to be parasitic ingrates. The illegal aliens from Mexico are not representative of the millions of decent, hardworking Mexicans, many whom I have met and befriended. I know quite a few people who previously either held positive feelings toward Mexico, or were indifferent, who now cringe whenever Mexico is mentioned, or Spanish is spoken. They now feel nothing but disdain toward Mexico and its citizens, due to the arrogance and sense of entitlement so prevalent among Mexican illegal aliens. They do their fellow countrymen a grave disservice.
I agree, and trust me this is something that ticks off a lot of people in Mexico
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:22 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
The government is corrupt, this is undeniable, (although this is changing, because the Mexican society keeps pressuring and scrutinizing them) and there is some corruption in the society, but I don't agree that the majority of the citizens are corrupt or that poverty is more rampid than civility, if that were the case this country wouldn't be able to function at all!
No offense, but for several decades I have yet to read anything remotely resembling functionality linked to the country of mexico.

Quote:
There is a lot of poverty though which was created during the era of financial meltdowns, this happened no so long ago in the 70's - 80's when we faced hyperinflation, devaluations of more than 3000% and a long of things that wiped out the living standards that existed before, it wasn't until 1994 after the worst financial crisis that this country faced, that we knew that economic stability was.
I've heard and read about the wealth of mexico's oligarchies. It is also my understanding that approximately 5 families control the majority of oil and wealth in your country. Additionally, I hear that they pay NO taxes thus, your poverty stricken people receive a poor quality of education and have no social programs. I would really love to hear from you whether this is true and your overall take in this regard. Thanks in advance.

Quote:
I understand your anger and frustration, but let me clarify something, many of this people don't possess any loyalty for Mexico either, heck if they did, then why go **** off the neighboor and give a great country a bad name! They don't possess any loyalty for anyone for that matter, they just want to have their cake and eat it, like you said, we are simpy a means to their end.
I have no doubt that you are correct, however, if you witnessed the 2006 marches in this country, the protests and waiving of the mexican flag even you have to admit they put on a great front don't they?

Quote:
You would have to visit Mexico and see her with your own eyes to have an idea of how are really things here, or what is Mexican culture, Chicano culture, which was created by people with Mexican origins but born and raised in the USA is a completely different thing.
I have no doubt that this is true. However, I have met many Americans of mexican descent who possess the same racist arrogance and sense of entitlement as their mexican counterparts. Many display antipathy for black people (especially the women) but seem to have no problem procreating with the brothers. That I don't get.

Quote:
now let me tell you my friend that a lot of the scum of our countries decides just to go and cause trouble everywhere else, you don't have an idea of the number of americans who come to hide in Mexico because they did something bad in the USA, if you knew spanish and read the local news of Mexico you would be surprised to know the amount of rapists or child molestors from the USA that come to mexico as "tourists" and the worst part of it is that most came legally

But just because some trouble makers from the USA decided to use Mexico as their abusing ground, I wouldn't ever think that the majority of citizens in the USA are like this.

Great post too JD
I have no doubt that what you say is true. I have heard that many (primarily white) Americans run and hide in mexico when they are in trouble. I also have no doubt that they are guilty of what you have stated. However, in light of the fact that mexico condones marriage and sex with minor children, it's hypocritical to call it rape, unless there is protest from the alleged victim prior to the act of sexual intercourse.

That being said, there is a huge difference in a hundred or so Americans hiding or residing in your country illegally while receiving nothing free and if caught in some cases being tortured prior to expedited deportation, as opposed to millions of mexicans living on US soil illegally, breeding abundantly, overcrowding and deteriorating the quality of our schools, hospitals, neighborhoods and social services and overcrowding our jails so much so that our tax dollars are being squandered accomodating millions of people who have no right to be here.

At the end of the day, the majority of Americans want all illegal aliens out of this country. Unfortunately, not only are we forced to fight the minority in our country who fight to achieve their selfish desires, we are also left to fight the massive population of illegal aliens who are destroying our country and in many cases people's lives.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 01-25-2009 at 11:37 AM..
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Old 01-25-2009, 11:44 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,298,722 times
Reputation: 1423
Quote:
Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
No offense, but for several decades I have yet to read anything remotely resembling functionality linked to the country of mexico.

I've heard and read about the wealth of mexico's oligarchies. It is also my understanding that approximately 5 families control the majority of oil and wealth in your country. Additionally, I hear that they pay NO taxes thus, your poverty stricken people have no social programs. I would really love to hear from you whether this is true and your overall take in this regard. Thanks in advance.
The oligarchies in Mexico are a fact, most are really huge transnational enterprises, like Cemex, Femsa, Bimbo, Vitro, Telmex, etc, which in some cases use their size and power to their advantage, a la Microsoft, Walmart, etc, but they also create a lot of jobs, pay reasonable wages and offer reasonable incentives to their employees, besides that nobody forces you to work there.

Oil is state controlled, the government is the only one who has a say on what to do with it, before there was democracy in this country the resource was discretionally used to fund a lot of things that were in the PRI's (a political party here who reigned supreme for 71 years) best interests, then when Fox came, most of that wealth was wated in stupid things, and now with Calderon finally it is being put to good use, this has been one of the reasons why Mexico hasn't been destroyed (economically) with the global crisis we are currently facing.

There are social programs for the poorest in this country, like oportunidades.

Oportunidades - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There are also 2 social security institutions, IMSS which means Mexican Social Security institute, that provides free medical attention and medicines to those citizens who need it, the service is quite poor though, but it's better than nothing, this is funded with the taxes that employees and employers pay to the government,

Mexican Social Security Institute - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

there is also the ISSTE which means Social Security Institute for State Workers, the service of this one is slightly better, but it is only for those who work for the government.

There is also free schooling from elementary to Junior High, from Senior High to college it is still free, but you have to pass a selection process, people who come from public schools have preference and those who get the highest grades are the ones who can enrol in the colleges, universities and polytechnicals.

Quote:
I have no doubt that you are correct, however, if you witnessed the 2006 marches in this country, the protests and waiving of the mexican flag even you have to admit they put on a great front don't they?
Yes, but Ilegals have tried to compare their movement with Martin Luther King's civil rights movement too, they use anything they can in order to justify their movement, they kidnap symbols or figures and just use them for their advantage.

Quote:
I have no doubt that this is true. However, I have met many Americans of mexican descent who possess the same racist arrogance and sense of entitlement as their mexican counterparts. Many display antipathy for black women, but seem to have no problem procreating with the brothers. That I don't get.
This is true, but aren't a lot of Mexican Americans against ilegal immigration too?

Quote:
I have no doubt that what you say is true. I have heard that many (primarily white) Americans run and hide in mexico when they are in trouble. I also have no doubt that they are guilty of what you have stated.

That being said, there is a huge difference in a hundred or so Americans hiding or residing in your country illegally while receiving nothing free and if caught in some cases being tortured prior to expedited deportation, as opposed to millions of mexicans living on US soil illegally, breeding abundantly, overcrowding and deteriorating the quality of our schools, hospitals, neighborhoods and social services and overcrowding our jails so much so that our tax dollars are being squandered accomodating millions of people who have no right to be here.
Yes I agree that you can't compare hundreds to millions, is like comparing mosquitoes and elephants, but trust me, if the Mexican government started to offer all the facilities, freebies, programs, etc to illegal immigrants, we would have millions of them in no time, even though the wages paid here are lower than the ones paid in the USA.

Quote:
At the end of the day, the majority of Americans want all illegal aliens out of this country. Unfortunately, not only are we forced to fight the minority in our country who fight to achieve their selfish desires, we are also left to fight the massive population of illegal aliens who are destroying our country and in many cases people's lives.
Yes, and this is a serious issue indeed, I'm with you on that it is necesary to put some order in the house, this will do a lot to improve the relations between Mexico and the USA too, what would need to be done is to make all those freebies for citizens only, have the willpower to create a much more effective social security system that can't be abused in the way the current one is, and get really tough on illegal immigrants employeers.

if the government of the USA really wanted to do it, they would have done it, they have all the resources to do it, it is America after all!
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Old 01-25-2009, 12:02 PM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
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Thanks for the explanation of how things really work in Mexico. You have confirmed many of my thoughts and opinions as to why we have been invaded by mexican nationals.

As I suspected and stated on many occasions, their time would be better spent demanding improvement and changes of programs already in place in their homeland as opposed to invading the US and demanding that which they have no right to.

My assessment: It is nothing less than greed, laziness and cowardice being used as an excuse to invade America.

Quote:
Yes, and this is a serious issue indeed, I'm with you on that it is necesary to put some order in the house, this will do a lot to improve the relations between Mexico and the USA too, what would need to be done is to make all those freebies for citizens only, have the willpower to create a much more effective social security system that can't be abused in the way the current one is, and get really tough on illegal immigrants employeers.

if the government of the USA really wanted to do it, they would have done it, they have all the resources to do it, it is America after all!
I totally and unequivocably agree.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:10 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,313,117 times
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Originally Posted by JDubsMom View Post
Whose talking about "IMMIGRANTS"? We are discussing ILLEGAL ALIENS. There is a difference. LEGAL immigrants have every right to be present and employed in this country. Illegals on the other hand have one right and that is to be deported. Please acknowledge that and stop blurring the lines.
Paying thousands of dollars in bribes (or "immigration fees"), going through a ridiculously lengthy process, and kissing a lot of bureaucratic butt does not create any "line" that I care to recognize!

Human beings are human beings. The only "illegal" human beings are the ones that commit a real crime against a real and specific victim. Transporting themselves to where people are willing to give them jobs is not a crime!
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:12 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
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Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
Paying thousands of dollars in bribes (or "immigration fees"), going through a ridiculously lengthy process, and kissing a lot of bureaucratic butt does not create any "line" that I care to recognize!

Human beings are human beings. The only "illegal" human beings are the ones that commit a real crime against a real and specific victim. Transporting themselves to where people are willing to give them jobs is not a crime!
Under US (and most other countries) law: what you just described is indeed a crime if referring to coming here illegally and working.
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Old 01-25-2009, 05:28 PM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,036,601 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
Paying thousands of dollars in bribes (or "immigration fees"), going through a ridiculously lengthy process, and kissing a lot of bureaucratic butt does not create any "line" that I care to recognize!

Human beings are human beings. The only "illegal" human beings are the ones that commit a real crime against a real and specific victim. Transporting themselves to where people are willing to give them jobs is not a crime!
Please, please hop on a plane and try this tactic with any European Union country. Please. And then get back to me
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