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Old 01-26-2009, 03:21 AM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 162,337 times
Reputation: 148

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It is quite interesting that President Obama is purportedly making the SCHIP expansion a priority. As some authors point out, this expansion of this program, costing tax payers $35 billion, would give health insurance to illegal aliens, along side children from families (some of whom could make up to $100,000 annually and still qualify).

The House of Representatives passed this bill on January 14, and the Senate will be working on this.

A couple of links to this story include:
Obama poised to give insurance to illegals
The Hill’s Blog Briefing Room » Obama Praises SCHIP Expansion, Pledges to Sign

This link by George Will is quite interesting:
New SCHIP expansion is mission gallop

Although a little more radical source, the information is interesting, along with a history of wanting to not exclude illegal immigrants:
200901183359 | Obama Extends Healthcare to Illegal Aliens | / | Editorial (http://www.rightsidenews.com/200901183359/editorial/obama-extends-healthcare-to-illegal-aliens.html - broken link)

As a healthcare provider; I guess it is better to be paid for federally mandated medical care (Emergency Departments are required by federal law to stabilize and treat all people presenting to them, regardless of ability to pay and are also required to provide medically trained translators).

I have nothing personally against the children of illegal immigrants individually, but as a group, they cost society a great deal.

The overwhelming problem is that illegal immigrants need to be repatriated to their rightful homes. The continued notion of supplying services to the entire world; despite being broke at home and not able to provide for our own, is insane.

Excluding illegal immigrants from such a plan should never even be an issue; the issue is, upon detection of an illegal immigrant, they should be sent home. Making specific provisions that state illegal immigrants have rights to this SCHIP expansion is unfortunate. Why legal residents and tax payers are not throwing a fit is amazing.
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Old 01-26-2009, 05:29 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,789,466 times
Reputation: 620
Stop with the lies and propaganda, schip doesn't give coverage to illegal immigrants. Those of you who oppose schip are in A VERY tiny minority of american voters.


Quote:
The American public strongly supports continuing and expanding the State Children's Health Insurance Program. But a new poll shows that an attempt to override President Bush's veto of the bill may fail
Poll: Americans Support SCHIP : NPR
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Old 01-26-2009, 11:06 AM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,867,845 times
Reputation: 4563
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Stop with the lies and propaganda, schip doesn't give coverage to illegal immigrants. Those of you who oppose schip are in A VERY tiny minority of american voters.




Poll: Americans Support SCHIP : NPR
Did you count all of those against it.

And Yes I do support it but not for those that can afford to pay for their own insurance.
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Old 01-26-2009, 02:21 PM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 162,337 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Stop with the lies and propaganda, schip doesn't give coverage to illegal immigrants. Those of you who oppose schip are in A VERY tiny minority of american voters.




Poll: Americans Support SCHIP : NPR

A Poll as your proof -- this is as weak an argument as one can make. No lies no propaganda, just facts actually.

Let's first address your concept of using a Poll to determine how the American people feel about anything. If the poll was taken after giving the person being polled an unbiased education of what was in the bill, including the costs, who was covered, etc; then I'd accept the results. However, this poll will be based upon asking people if they think it is a good idea to expand a program to bring healthcare to more disadvantaged children. I'd answer yes also. However, did the people being polled realize the extent of this program, the moving through of this program not just to the poor, and also to include illegal immigrants? I doubt that this was clearly pointed out; so using such a poll to mean anything, just shows a general lack of understanding of how these things are done. Also, everything in life, as to what is right or wrong or should or should not be passed is a popularity contest.

Now in regard to the complaint of it being propaganda, Hmm.. I think you've got your facts wrong. The National Conference of State Legislatures has a nice piece on this topic; and it details that there is access for children in immigrant families (including illegal). Here is the link:
SCHIP & Access for Children in Immigrant Families

Here is another:
https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1

And another:
SCHIP Bill Increases Illegal Immigrants’ Access to Medicaid and Undermines Welfare Reform (http://www.cerium.ca/SCHIP-Bill-Increases-Illegal - broken link)

Actually, I could go on with links for some time -- as the facts are exactly as I represented them. A simplistic visceral response of this being propaganda demonstrates a general synaptic disfunction in the cerebrum.

I'm quite supportive of helping children of illegal immigrants; I believe a general physical checkup, make sure they are doing well, prior to deporting them and their family would be a nice going home gift.

I'm even more supportive of a bill that is reasonable in providing access to legal resident's children into a reasonable parental income level.

Last edited by BigDaddyG; 01-26-2009 at 02:37 PM..
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Old 01-26-2009, 04:49 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,789,466 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigDaddyG View Post
A Poll as your proof -- this is as weak an argument as one can make. No lies no propaganda, just facts actually.

Let's first address your concept of using a Poll to determine how the American people feel about anything. If the poll was taken after giving the person being polled an unbiased education of what was in the bill, including the costs, who was covered, etc; then I'd accept the results. However, this poll will be based upon asking people if they think it is a good idea to expand a program to bring healthcare to more disadvantaged children. I'd answer yes also. However, did the people being polled realize the extent of this program, the moving through of this program not just to the poor, and also to include illegal immigrants? I doubt that this was clearly pointed out; so using such a poll to mean anything, just shows a general lack of understanding of how these things are done. Also, everything in life, as to what is right or wrong or should or should not be passed is a popularity contest.

Now in regard to the complaint of it being propaganda, Hmm.. I think you've got your facts wrong. The National Conference of State Legislatures has a nice piece on this topic; and it details that there is access for children in immigrant families (including illegal). Here is the link:
SCHIP & Access for Children in Immigrant Families

Here is another:
https://www.policyarchive.org/bitstr...pdf?sequence=1

And another:
SCHIP Bill Increases Illegal Immigrants’ Access to Medicaid and Undermines Welfare Reform (http://www.cerium.ca/SCHIP-Bill-Increases-Illegal - broken link)

Actually, I could go on with links for some time -- as the facts are exactly as I represented them. A simplistic visceral response of this being propaganda demonstrates a general synaptic disfunction in the cerebrum.

I'm quite supportive of helping children of illegal immigrants; I believe a general physical checkup, make sure they are doing well, prior to deporting them and their family would be a nice going home gift.

I'm even more supportive of a bill that is reasonable in providing access to legal resident's children into a reasonable parental income level.
Where in the bill does it say schip will help illegal immigrants? Don't provide me with links from people with an agenda. You can read the whole bill at thomas.gov and i'm watching the debate in the senate on C-span right now. The expansion covers children of legal immigrants not children of illegal immigrants. Once again children born in the U.S to illegal immigrants are U.S citizens, that is a fact and law so deal with it.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:32 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,708,999 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Where in the bill does it say schip will help illegal immigrants? Don't provide me with links from people with an agenda. You can read the whole bill at thomas.gov and i'm watching the debate in the senate on C-span right now. The expansion covers children of legal immigrants not children of illegal immigrants. Once again children born in the U.S to illegal immigrants are U.S citizens, that is a fact and law so deal with it.
If one no longer has to provide PROOF of citizenship to be enrolled in the program, if an easily purchased forged/stolen SS card is all that will be required to qualify for benefits (which will be paid for by the American taxpayer), the illegal aliens and their children who are in the country illegally will jump on the SCHIP program like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
I agree with BDG. As a gesture of goodwill, if they are in the US illegally, they should be given a free physical exam and repatriated to their home countries.
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Old 01-26-2009, 06:41 PM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,789,466 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If one no longer has to provide PROOF of citizenship to be enrolled in the program, if an easily purchased forged/stolen SS card is all that will be required to qualify for benefits (which will be paid for by the American taxpayer), the illegal aliens and their children who are in the country illegally will jump on the SCHIP program like a hobo on a ham sandwich.
I agree with BDG. As a gesture of goodwill, if they are in the US illegally, they should be given a free physical exam and repatriated to their home countries.




Where in the bill does it say that?
    • Quote:
        • provide, with respect to an individual declaring to be a citizen or national of the United States for purposes of establishing eligibility under this title, that the State shall satisfy the requirements of--
          • `(i) section 1903(x); or
          • `(ii) subsection (ee);'; and
            • (ii) by adding at the end the following new subsection:
      • `(ee)(1) For purposes of subsection (a)(46)(B)(ii), the requirements of this subsection with respect to an individual declaring to be a citizen or national of the United States for purposes of establishing eligibility under this title, are, in lieu of requiring the individual to present satisfactory documentary evidence of citizenship or nationality under section 1903(x) (if the individual is not described in paragraph (2) of that section), as follows:
        • `(A) The State submits the name and social security number of the individual to the Commissioner of Social Security as part of the program established under paragraph (2).
        • `(B) If the State receives notice from the Commissioner of Social Security that the name or social security number, or the declaration of citizenship or nationality, of the individual is inconsistent with information in the records maintained by the Commissioner--
          • `(i) the State makes a reasonable effort to identify and address the causes of such inconsistency, including through typographical or other clerical errors, by contacting the individual to confirm the accuracy of the name or social security number submitted or declaration of citizenship or nationality and by taking such additional actions as the Secretary, through regulation or other guidance, or the State may identify, and continues to provide the individual with medical assistance while making such effort; and
          • `(ii) in the case such inconsistency is not resolved under clause (i), the State--
            • `(I) notifies the individual of such fact;
            • `(II) provides the individual with a period of 90 days from the date on which the notice required under subclause (I) is received by the individual to either present satisfactory documentary evidence of citizenship or nationality (as defined in section 1903(x)(3)) or resolve the inconsistency with the Commissioner of Social Security (and continues to provide the individual with medical assistance during such 90-day period); and
            • `(III) disenrolls the individual from the State plan under this title within 30 days after the end of such 90-day period if no such documentary evidence is presented or if such inconsistency is not resolved
Your arguments of fear and predicting the future of how this program is going to work still doesn't hold any water.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Doonan, QLD
103 posts, read 162,337 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Where in the bill does it say that? Your arguments of fear and predicting the future of how this program is going to work still doesn't hold any water.
I've reviewed what you've written, and the problem remains that the issues identified in this article are real concerns:
SCHIP Bill Increases Illegal Immigrants' Access to Medicaid and Undermines Welfare Reform

The change in protocol to make it quite easy to sign up and be eligible for this program while not really being eligible is a huge problem. There was no reason to change the eligibility rules as part of this expansion of this program. The end effect is that a lot of people who shouldn't be entitled to the program will end up being eligible for it.

We are already dealing with people who are evading the laws; this is just another area where they will get benefits at tax payer expense. Why is this bill making it easier for this to occur?

It would be nice if the legislature could simply have a bill that directs healthcare specifically and reasonably to children legally in the country and to a reasonable parental income level. The goals of the bill are reasonable, but the implementation will leave illegal immigrants accessing yet another government program.

When this is law, the loop holes that are deliberately engineered in this bill will allow abuse and likely rampant abuse.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,611,035 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Where in the bill does it say schip will help illegal immigrants? Don't provide me with links from people with an agenda. You can read the whole bill at thomas.gov and i'm watching the debate in the senate on C-span right now. The expansion covers children of legal immigrants not children of illegal immigrants. Once again children born in the U.S to illegal immigrants are U.S citizens, that is a fact and law so deal with it.
Remember: the illegal alien parents can be deported; which usually entails that their Anchors will leave as well.
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Old 01-27-2009, 06:44 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,789,466 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Remember: the illegal alien parents can be deported; which usually entails that their Anchors will leave as well.
Another irrelevant post by AB.
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