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Old 01-27-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Denver
9,064 posts, read 15,482,794 times
Reputation: 5288

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amerifree View Post
Both Ibarrio and Mach50 are WRONG...WRONG.....WRONG!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS LAZINESS, LACK OF EDUCATION AND PURE INDIFFERENCE TO THE US, ITS' CITIZENS, CULTURE AND LAWS!!! THEY JUST WANT A NANNY STATE TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THEM....SO FAR, THEY'VE FOUND IT! CHECKOUT THE WELFARE APPLICATION LINE IN YOUR TOWN AND GET BACK TO US....AND TAKE SOME PICTURES. YOU WILL SEE I AM RIGHT.

I KNOW THIS TO BE FACT BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED AMONG THEM FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!!
First, thanks for using all CAPS that really drives home your argument....<sarc>

Second, you just proved my point, welfare is a job to some...take that away and assimilation will come.

If the money is not there for those who don't assimilate, then what choice do they have but to assimilate?
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Old 01-27-2009, 12:55 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,078,551 times
Reputation: 2244
i have to agree with this.

lets not forget the multitude of night school classes bursting with new arrivals looking to learn english.

there are many factors that either impede or support assimilation. it is not someones culture. it is the circumstances they encounter in their new country.

time, money, education, urgency, etc all play a role.

but assimilation happens.
i just think that the rate of immigration might have exceeded the rate of assimilation. its a game of catch up.
but that might have also been the case with the older immigration as articles have been published highlighting the fact that certain groups do assimilate at the same or faster rates than waves before them.
hmmmmm

great topic tho.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mach50 View Post
The tipping point is always: work.

Assimilation comes when immigrants realize they need to assimilate to obtain jobs.

The reason why assimilation advancement is so slow for some immigrants is that they have found a niche of jobs where assimilation is not so important. So they get by and have built up in bigger #'s.

When those jobs dry up, or their kids realize advancement is good, assimilation will occur.

I don't think respect, laziness, hatred or not wanting to become an American has much to do with it, that's what people say that take this all too personally.
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
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Assimilation requires a desire for change, and is similar to other human behaviors. Generally, there is a resistance to change, unless the individual can clearly see WIIFM (what’s in it for me).
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:14 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Assimilation requires a desire for change, and is similar to other human behaviors. Generally, there is a resistance to change, unless the individual can clearly see WIIFM (what’s in it for me).
Of course....as you say, it's like any other elective effort....and if "what's in it for me" is pretty much the same as what I'll get ANYWAY, then why would I bother? It's like having an 'optional income tax'....or a 'pay what you feel like paying' supermarket....
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Old 01-27-2009, 01:21 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Of course....as you say, it's like any other elective effort....and if "what's in it for me" is pretty much the same as what I'll get ANYWAY, then why would I bother? It's like having an 'optional income tax'....or a 'pay what you feel like paying' supermarket....
Bingo!
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Old 01-27-2009, 02:52 PM
 
608 posts, read 881,634 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Of course....as you say, it's like any other elective effort....and if "what's in it for me" is pretty much the same as what I'll get ANYWAY, then why would I bother? It's like having an 'optional income tax'....or a 'pay what you feel like paying' supermarket....
Before you judge I am neither pro nor against... I just try to look at things from a higher level before taking a position!

Your earlier post was great! Thanks. I guess for me I have trouble with the fact that Democracy and Capitalism have no race, language (other than money) or religion. So when people come here (legal or not) they have actually assimilated by way of democracy and capitalism. We all seem to understand these two items. True as a cohesive country one language would be efficient just as we have one currency but then there is this thing called democracy that comes into play where all have an equal say. The majority are represented as well as the minority.

Yes maybe we have taken it to the extreme by giving illegal immigrants a voice but we are still a democracy so we will have to figure this out together. Some of the solutions in the posts are very non-democratic and very socialistic even dictatorial in nature. Most are inward looking and short sighted (choosing to omit capitalistic virtues) versus outward looking and considering the big picture of the future. We all have our views and ideals at times the compliment and at other times the conflict. But that is Democracy which we all are proud of to the fact that we can dialog here without fear of persecution no matter what our views are.

So yes we are offended by illegals claiming rights, making demands, working, purchasing, sending money home speaking their own language and honoring their own customs. While at the same time the fact that any one of us could do the same and do as Mac pointed out be it family, corporate or swap meet. It looks to me like they have assimilated to the "American" culture of Democracy and Capitalism the driving forces in this great country.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HoustonCynic View Post
Yes maybe we have taken it to the extreme by giving illegal immigrants a voice but we are still a democracy so we will have to figure this out together. Some of the solutions in the posts are very non-democratic and very socialistic even dictatorial in nature. Most are inward looking and short sighted (choosing to omit capitalistic virtues) versus outward looking and considering the big picture of the future. We all have our views and ideals at times the compliment and at other times the conflict. But that is Democracy which we all are proud of to the fact that we can dialog here without fear of persecution no matter what our views are.

So yes we are offended by illegals claiming rights, making demands, working, purchasing, sending money home speaking their own language and honoring their own customs. While at the same time the fact that any one of us could do the same and do as Mac pointed out be it family, corporate or swap meet. It looks to me like they have assimilated to the "American" culture of Democracy and Capitalism the driving forces in this great country.
I understand your point of view. However, there is a difference between people “assimilating” to our culture of democracy and capitalism, and “exploiting” our culture of democracy and capitalism. I submit the latter applies to most illegals.
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Old 01-27-2009, 03:56 PM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,349,083 times
Reputation: 1832
Quote:
Originally Posted by amerifree View Post
Both Ibarrio and Mach50 are WRONG...WRONG.....WRONG!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS LAZINESS, LACK OF EDUCATION AND PURE INDIFFERENCE TO THE US, ITS' CITIZENS, CULTURE AND LAWS!!! THEY JUST WANT A NANNY STATE TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THEM....SO FAR, THEY'VE FOUND IT! CHECKOUT THE WELFARE APPLICATION LINE IN YOUR TOWN AND GET BACK TO US....AND TAKE SOME PICTURES. YOU WILL SEE I AM RIGHT.

I KNOW THIS TO BE FACT BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED AMONG THEM FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!!
Are we to take you serious?
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:27 PM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,303,557 times
Reputation: 1423
I want to thank all my friends for the responses and insights, there have been some really interesting posts on this subject

something that was mentioned repeatedly was culture, so I want to adress this issue, do you think that culture has something to do with the asimilation ratio?

it is easier to assimilate to some cultures rather than others?

and finally what is stronger, a culture or an individual? I want to believe that an individual is stronger than his/her culture, specially his set of core values and that pretty much defines his attitude towards life, but if his core values aren't very strong then culture can be overwhelming.

Family plays a key role here, because it is from them that you acquire your core values, but yet there are some individuals who turn out to be something entirely different than their families, for better or worse.

so what could it be the driving factor that makes some people receptive to a different culture, some people seem to enjoy the experience of learning new things and seek those experiences, while others reject them, be it for fear, lazyiness, or maybe a sense of alienation and isolation?

this said, what could help individuals to assimilate better into societies, any ideas?

Regards!
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Old 01-27-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: Orange County, California
1,017 posts, read 2,643,126 times
Reputation: 468
I think it has a lot to do with WHY they immigrated. If it was for a love of the USA and its ideals, then assimilation is more likely. If it was for political asylum, I think it's less likely.

I also think that there are other issues that come into play as well:
-education level (of parents in the case of children)
-socio-economic status
-school quality (in the case of children)
-diversity of neighborhood
-acceptance by community (perception of others drives introspection in many cases)
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