U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-27-2009, 12:25 AM
 
Location: The world, where will fate take me this time?
3,162 posts, read 10,295,946 times
Reputation: 1423

Advertisements

I was wondering and decided to start this thread, how come assimilation can be so hard for some, while for others is pretty natural, what are your thoughts on this?

imho the more receptive a person is the easier to asimilate that's why kids usually assimilate naturally, but let's see what others think
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-27-2009, 07:20 AM
 
8,180 posts, read 11,033,451 times
Reputation: 2873
I think a large part of it comes down to the immigrant wanting to be an American citizen vs a _______ that lives in the US.
I believe that by remaining monolingual, the immigrant is distancing himself from his new land and new culture. By insulating themselves in ethnic enclaves they further reduce the odds of becoming bilingual .... language immersion is the best way to become fluent.
And then I do think that there is a difference in being proud of being X, teaching your children how to speak X, continuing to eat X food and listen to X music vs clinging to the X culture so that assimiliation can never take place. These people are doing themselves and their communities a great disservice by doing the later.
I believe it boils down to the motive of the person for immigrating....did they want to be part of a new country or did they just want to get what they can while remaining X in their hearts? Where does their true loyalty lie? If it isn't to the US, then that will be a major reason for not assimiliating. And, imo, those are the people that should never have been allowed to immigrate at all.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Travelling fella View Post
I was wondering and decided to start this thread, how come assimilation can be so hard for some, while for others is pretty natural, what are your thoughts on this?

imho the more receptive a person is the easier to asimilate that's why kids usually assimilate naturally, but let's see what others think
Let me use the Vietnamese in Germany as an example:

About 25 years ago (when Germany was still West and East); a group of Vietnamese refugees were (legally) resettled there since they could not safely return to Vietnam. Needless to say: since their backs were against the wall----------these people quickly learned German and, in essence, became Germans culturally speaking.

As for the Vietnamese living in the former East Germany; many of them were the children of the Communist elite (remember that both E Germany and Vietnam were Communist) so they were able to return home hence felt much less incentive to be a part of E German society----------too, the authorities discouraged assimilation on many levels.

Come 1990 when Germany reunified: the former Vietnamese in the west had little in common with their ethnic 'countrymen' in the east.

Berlin's Vietnamese Wall | Current Affairs | Deutsche Welle | 27.11.2004

Vietnamese people in Germany - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 07:28 AM
 
4,172 posts, read 5,856,835 times
Reputation: 1199
In the US, prior knowledge of English helps in the assimilation process. In some cases where people are immigrating (family / political reason) when they are too old, this may not be possible. But I believe if you are immigrating to whatever country, you need to try to assimilate, you need not give up your culture (it enriches the country you have moved to), and you need to be loyal to your new home.

I think a couple of decades ago, assimilation was a must. But with increased immigrant populations, it may be easier not to assimilate. In the long run I think most immigrants acknowledge that without assimilation their economic options also are quite limited and this becomes a huge motivator.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 07:38 AM
 
1,474 posts, read 2,016,184 times
Reputation: 457
I dont think it is hard for those who desire to become American citizens. That being said, those who are here for a short time or just to make money to send home to support family there, there is less incentive to learn.

Lets see, cost benefit ratio............Old people just dont like learning new stuff.

resistance to change...............maybe.

Laziness on the part of some, probably.

Would intelligence factor have anything to do with it? not saying just asking on that point.

Criminality certainly would keep you below the radar screen..............

Bottom line, those who wish to become American citizens, those who wish to broaden their horizons with cultural learning, and those who are just bright , those I think are your best candidates to assimilate.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 10:02 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Interesting thread. Part of the answer to this question lies within the culture of the immigrant group in question. Those whose culture places a high degree of emphasis on personal responsibility...(i.e., people who see themselves as 'doing things', who experience social pressure to act responsibly, and shame when they don't) will be strongly motivated to assimilate to their new home. Those, on the other hand, who DON'T have these values (i.e., who see themselves as 'having things "done TO them" by others, and who feel little responsibility for their behavior, because it's 'out of their control') will feel little pressure to assimilate.

Much of the problem, though, lies not with the immigrant, but with the 'host society'. Nobody, regardless of his culture OR upbringing, is going to be able to assimilate, if he senses there's nothing to assimilate TO...and in many ways, that's the message modern-day America gives its immigrants. So great has been our fascination with multiculturalism, many of us seem to PREFER immigrants who don't assimilate, and we've gone to great lengths to insure that assimilation is 'optional'. The message we send is that "it's ALL OK, anything goes, nothing is 'written in stone', and even if you're illegal, you STILL have the right to expect a place in our society. Tell us what you want, and we'll accomodate you, if we possibly can". That sort of message gives LITTLE incentive for anyone to want to extend the effort required to assimilate.

All large organizations have a 'culture' of sorts, and various degrees of assimilation are expected. For example:

THE MILITARY..a huge organization, Those who become a part of it are required to assimilate to an extreme degree...in uniform, in grooming, in 'team spirit', etec etc etc. There's little room for 'diversity' of behavior in that type of setting..and little place for 'colorful expression'.

A LARGE CORPORATION...This has a 'culture', too. Employees are expected to adhere to many standards, to promote the company's policies, observe the schedule, 'act the part' while on duty, etc etc. Dress and grooming standards probably apply to some extent..Those who enjoy the benefits of being a 'member' must give up some of their individuality..at least when 'at work'.

A SWAP MEET...This "gathering" has a 'culture', but almost NO standards...one can arrive or leave at will, dress or act just about any way one chooses, and participate or not, strictly at one's whim...virtually NOTHING is required of an attendee at a swap meet. Drunk or sober, well-behaved or rowdy, ANYTHING goes at a swap meet.

The United States ALSO has a 'culture'. It was never like 'the military', but at one time, did have a sort of unwritten 'code', one that newcomers were expected to adhere to. Becoming a 'new American' was looked at as a great honor, and one worth sacrificing for. You 'put away the old', and adopted the 'new'. You celebrated your 'similarities' with the locals, not your 'differences'.

Today, our culture is coming more and more to resemble a Swap Meet...no rules, nothing required, show up when you please and we'll fit you in somehow. If you're legal, that's great..if NOT, no biggie.

Nobody can 'get with the program' unless a 'program' exists. Americans for a number of reasons have now decided that assimilation isn't 'cool', and that we like our immigrants 'colorful'. Immigrants are responding in kind. To a great extent, immigrants are saying, in effect, "if YOU (Americans) don't care, why should WE ?". Immigrants therefore are 'using their own judgement' and behaving in accordance with THEIR cultures....and those from 'well-behaved' cultures are behaving well....those from highly disciplined cultures are acting 'disciplined'.......and, unfortunately, the reverse is true as well.

If Americans aren't happy with the assimilation rates of new arrivals, perhaps they should look in the mirror...for THERE lies much of the reason why anyone might find it difficult to feel the need to 'fit in'...Fit in to WHAT, exactly?

Lastly, the question of illegality (that's the "Elephant in the Living Room"). As long as 20 million people are here illegally, and half of Americans are upset at the OTHER half of Americans over this, there's little chance of anyone assimilating to 'the system' here. Even a CASUAL glance at the Immigration Forum should make it pretty plain why people are not assimilatiing as they once did..

Last edited by macmeal; 01-27-2009 at 10:23 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 10:45 AM
Status: "Make America the Great Joke Again" (set 23 days ago)
 
Location: Denver
9,060 posts, read 15,467,286 times
Reputation: 5288
The tipping point is always: work.

Assimilation comes when immigrants realize they need to assimilate to obtain jobs.

The reason why assimilation advancement is so slow for some immigrants is that they have found a niche of jobs where assimilation is not so important. So they get by and have built up in bigger #'s.

When those jobs dry up, or their kids realize advancement is good, assimilation will occur.

I don't think respect, laziness, hatred or not wanting to become an American has much to do with it, that's what people say that take this all too personally.

Last edited by Mach50; 01-27-2009 at 11:03 AM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Surprise, Az
3,496 posts, read 8,341,703 times
Reputation: 1832
In today's society of "I want it done now" people tend to forget that Assimilation does not happen over night.



Study: Some immigrants assimilate faster


Quote:
Immigrants who arrived in the past 25 years have assimilated faster than their counterparts of a century ago, he says.

Measuring assimilation is challenging because it is difficult to define. For some, it's a person's ability to speak English or their willingness to become U.S. citizens. To others, it may be their appearance or way of dressing.

Vigdor uses characteristics that can distinguish immigrants from U.S. natives: economic (employment, occupations, education, homeownership); cultural (ability to speak English, marriage to natives, number of children); civic (naturalization, military service).

Some immigrants, such as Canadians, fit in well culturally but not in civic involvement because they don't seek U.S. citizenship, Vigdor's report says. Mexicans assimilate better culturally than Vietnamese but rank lower economically.

Mexicans have the lowest civic assimilation of any immigrant group, the report says.

"The long-term question is how do the children and grandchildren of immigrants do?" says Jeffrey Passel, demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center. "Those are the groups who really do the integrating."
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 11:22 AM
 
Location: So. California
62 posts, read 121,727 times
Reputation: 55
Quote:
Originally Posted by Convert 54 View Post
Lets see, cost benefit ratio............Old people just dont like learning new stuff.

resistance to change...............maybe.

Laziness on the part of some, probably.

Would intelligence factor have anything to do with it? not saying just asking on that point.

Criminality certainly would keep you below the radar screen..............

Bottom line, those who wish to become American citizens, those who wish to broaden their horizons with cultural learning, and those who are just bright , those I think are your best candidates to assimilate.
With my exception to the old not willing to change, not necessarily true. Otherwise your statements are on the money.
The illegals on our block carry a Mexican flag in the back of their SUV and refuse to 'assimilate' with the gringos on the street. They sneer at the old white gringos and leer at the females. This is not stereotype; it is fact. They are now back to smuggling illegals into their house for a short stay. Money of course is exchanged. No, they are biding their time until amnesty comes. They don't seem to realize that amnesty has taken a back seat on the economy bus.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-27-2009, 11:32 AM
 
1,368 posts, read 1,627,376 times
Reputation: 1111
Both Ibarrio and Mach50 are WRONG...WRONG.....WRONG!!!!

I KNOW FOR A FACT THAT IT IS LAZINESS, LACK OF EDUCATION AND PURE INDIFFERENCE TO THE US, ITS' CITIZENS, CULTURE AND LAWS!!! THEY JUST WANT A NANNY STATE TO MAKE LIFE EASIER FOR THEM....SO FAR, THEY'VE FOUND IT! CHECKOUT THE WELFARE APPLICATION LINE IN YOUR TOWN AND GET BACK TO US....AND TAKE SOME PICTURES. YOU WILL SEE I AM RIGHT.

I KNOW THIS TO BE FACT BECAUSE I HAVE LIVED AMONG THEM FOR THE PAST 8 YEARS!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies > Illegal Immigration
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top