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Old 02-07-2009, 09:32 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You’re probably right. I guess it’s like the old “colored only” signs. Why on earth would anyone be offended? Some people are just too sensitive.
When the boys build a 'secret treehouse', and the sign says "No Dumb Ol' Girls Allowed", should the girls get MAD? Shucks NO!....THEY can just have a TEA PARTY, and keep those yucky old BOYS out !!

No reason ANYBODY should get MAD here....right?
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
When the boys build a 'secret treehouse', and the sign says "No Dumb Ol' Girls Allowed", should the girls get MAD? Shucks NO!....THEY can just have a TEA PARTY, and keep those yucky old BOYS out !!

No reason ANYBODY should get MAD here....right?
Ah, you just took me down Memory Lane. . . tea parties -- those were the good ol' days.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:37 AM
 
706 posts, read 1,312,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
I'm pretty sure that the Sons of Norway and/or B'nai B'rith don't have a motto which states: [...]
It depends on the context. An owner of an all-you-can-eat buffet can host a "Sons of Norway" luncheon where only Norwegians are invited - who cares. But if anyone starts initiating aggression, this obviously is a problem, racist or not.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Correction: anti-illegal immigration nuts. BTW, I'm a cashew.
I'm a gradualist, I don't actually believe we should open the borders 100% overnight. Let's set a very high quota, say a couple million per year, and increase that quota gradually, while also reducing the green card and citizenship bureaucracy. What would you say to that?

My prediction is - you won't like it, because you are in fact anti-immigration. You believe people born in this country have some sort of a "divine right" and should not compete with other peoples of the world based individual merit.

Legalism is merely something you can hide behind because it sounds good, but in reality it doesn't. Irrational behavior isn't justified just because it's "the law". Real law comes from nature: individual self-ownership. The rest is mere thuggery.
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
I'm a gradualist, I don't actually believe we should open the borders 100% overnight. Let's set a very high quota, say a couple million per year, and increase that quota gradually, while also reducing the green card and citizenship bureaucracy. What would you say to that?

My prediction is - you won't like it, because you are in fact anti-immigration. You believe people born in this country have some sort of a "divine right" and should not compete with other peoples of the world based individual merit.

Legalism is merely something you can hide behind because it sounds good, but in reality it doesn't. Irrational behavior isn't justified just because it's "the law". Real law comes from nature: individual self-ownership. The rest is mere thuggery.
While looking into your crystal ball, did you by chance see how we will limit our open borders to 2 million, or what we should do with the 20 million already here? Should any country receive preferential treatment? Or, should it be a universal free-for-all?

BTW, are you a U.S. citizen?

Oh, I almost forgot. I was married to an immigrant (legal of course). So your "prediction" is seriously flawed.

Last edited by Benicar; 02-07-2009 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 02-07-2009, 09:46 AM
 
Location: Pa
20,310 posts, read 18,881,481 times
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Well I do believe in immigration especially since I am married to a (Legal) immigrant. WHat makes you believe that we owe anyone an easy access in? Why should we not set a high standard for potential immigrants? We don't need unskilled people with a minimum ability to support themselves. Our country produces more than enough of those. I think immigrants should be required to have a minimum 2 year college degree and have the financial resourses to provide for themselves.
Many countries require prospective immigrants to first open an account in a bank in said country. Thailand for example the amount is 50,000 US dollars.
In short Alex I disagree with you. Personal accountability is just that. In this case let those seeking to enter satisfy a minimum requirement and apply to enter legally. Anyone who decided not to enter legally needs to be held accountable. They made a bad choice. They cheated.
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:06 AM
 
706 posts, read 1,312,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
While looking into your crystal ball, did you by chance see how we will limit our open borders to 2 million, or what we should do with the 20 million already here?
I don't know, same ineffective methods we have now? I'm not saying crack is good, I'm saying you can't quit cold turkey.

If U.S. becomes the first "first world" nation in the world to open its borders outright, there would be an overwhelming shock to the labor market as everyone and his cousin go to some third world loan shark to get money for a raft ticket here, and the market signal of "there are no more jobs for unskilled labor for now" won't travel back fast enough...

(I've argued this point with more zealous anti-border libertarians before. Too bad the mods here don't allow linking to other forums, but if you Google "alex libman if we had open borders how many people would move here" without quotes you'll find that forum thread near the top.)


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Should any country receive preferential treatment? Or, should it be a universal free-for-all?
When there is a quota and a higher number of applicants, an auction is the only fair way to do this. Some fraction of people will manage to slip through the cracks though and get here for free, especially if they can just walk over from Mexico, but so it goes...


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
BTW, are you a U.S. citizen?
Idealistically - I don't believe in citizenship. But technically - yes I am.
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:25 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Libman View Post
I don't know, same ineffective methods we have now? I'm not saying crack is good, I'm saying you can't quit cold turkey.

If U.S. becomes the first "first world" nation in the world to open its borders outright, there would be an overwhelming shock to the labor market as everyone and his cousin go to some third world loan shark to get money for a raft ticket here, and the market signal of "there are no more jobs for unskilled labor for now" won't travel back fast enough...

(I've argued this point with more zealous anti-border libertarians before. Too bad the mods here don't allow linking to other forums, but if you Google "alex libman if we had open borders how many people would move here" without quotes you'll find that forum thread near the top.)


When there is a quota and a higher number of applicants, an auction is the only fair way to do this. Some fraction of people will manage to slip through the cracks though and get here for free, especially if they can just walk over from Mexico, but so it goes...

Idealistically - I don't believe in citizenship. But technically - yes I am.
Alex, you lost me in the first sentence. What on earth are you talking about? When did “crack” enter this discussion? Or, has this dialogue elicited some cathartic experience for you?
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Old 02-07-2009, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You’re probably right. I guess it’s like the old “colored only” signs. Why on earth would anyone be offended? Some people are just too sensitive.
And the irony is that some people (including Blacks) actually collect that sort of stuff. Another sign worth $$$ (if genuine) is 'Irish need not apply'.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:06 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
And the irony is that some people (including Blacks) actually collect that sort of stuff. Another sign worth $$$ (if genuine) is 'Irish need not apply'.
I know. There's a black-owned novelty shop I frequent that displays a couple of the 'colored only' signs. It is an inextricable component of U.S. history.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:19 AM
 
706 posts, read 1,312,752 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Alex, you lost me in the first sentence. What on earth are you talking about?
Adult-level English reading skills are an assumed prerequisite for most of my posts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
When did “crack” enter this discussion? [...]
This literary method is called a figurative analogy (http://usingyourspeechpower.com/figurative_analogies.shtml - broken link), and it is commonly used to briefly convey an idea by referencing a comparable idea that is more commonly understood.

The crack or heroin in this case is analogous to government: it is bad for you, but if just stop using it suddenly (aka "cold turkey") you will have withdrawal symptoms because your body is chemically dependent on that poison. It helps to ease off it gradually, while perhaps replacing it with a less harmful poison to help your body adjust. The same applies to border enforcement, for the reasons I've already summarized above. There are no good short-term solutions, but the long-term solution is liberty, including wide-open borders and no restrictions on migration of capital and labor.
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