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Old 02-03-2009, 02:34 PM
 
216 posts, read 450,691 times
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YouTube - Citizens Protest Racist La Raza
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Old 02-03-2009, 04:36 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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"Racist la raza".....sounds sort of redundant to me....like "past history"....or "new innovations"....or "awfully ugly"....or the "Sierra Nevada Mountains".

Have you ever heard of an INCLUSIVE 'la raza'?....
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
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And another one gets lost in the translation, lol.

If you have a race in the title of your organization, it's usually fine. But don't actually put the word "race" in it, or people will get confused(even if it has a slightly different meaning in the other language).

"La Raza means "the race"! Theyyre raaacist!"
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:09 PM
 
Location: southern california
55,237 posts, read 72,402,860 times
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most every group gets the title culture or ethnic except european americans..
when they try to form groups they get name called.
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Old 02-06-2009, 06:14 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
most every group gets the title culture or ethnic except european americans..
when they try to form groups they get name called.
There's Italian-American, German-American organizations. Nobody calls them names for having them.
A White organization isn't the same as a Irish-American group, or something like that.

The reason "white" groups are so taboo, compared to other race based groups, is because organizations like that are usually meant to give a voice to a minority group that needs to make sure their needs are represented. Some of those groups might be white, such as Jewish organizations, or some of the ethnic groups I mentioned above.

As far as a Latinos group, raza is just another term, like gente. It just means the people. Latinos are so mixed in the first place, they are of no one race. So it's kind of an umbrella term for a "new" kind of race. A sense of unity.
I think it's funny how non-Latinos are so bothered by it.
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Old 02-06-2009, 07:23 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
There's Italian-American, German-American organizations. Nobody calls them names for having them.
A White organization isn't the same as a Irish-American group, or something like that.

.
In the FIRST place, our "OP" on this thread is hardly a 'neutral' character, as I'm sure you're aware. Keep that in mind.

SECONDLY, in regard to your above statement, it's true such organizations do exist. The "Sons if Italy", for example, is quite active in the Catholic church. Its members, by the way, include MANY non-Italians...so do many Filipino-Catholic and Irish-Catholic groups include ethnic "others" in their membership.

It may be true that nobody "calls them names"..but that's a little different from a group calling itself "the race" OR "the people". If YOU (those who are members) are "the people", what do they call NON-members?


I've writtem many posts on this, way back months ago. ANY of these 'ethnic pride' groups, while not altogether 'racist', come pretty close to being at LEAST rude and dismissive. WE live in a harsh society, and there's not a lot of understanding out there these days; and it may be OK to see a "Festa San Giuseppe" or a "Saint Paddy" bumper sticker..but by the time you get to "God Loves Italians"...or "Thank God I'm Irish", it begins to get a LITTLE rude. Not illegal; not racist, MAYBE..but a little rude. It says "We're IN, and you're NOT..and I'M sure glad I'm not YOU...because MY group is SPECIAL, and you're not part of it". I the second grade, we were taught this is "rude" behavior. I believe it still is, for adults as well.

In a more relaxed time, these things were "OK". Life was tough, and we all took our "lumps", and we didn't 'whine'...but those days are gone, and today, we DO whine...and very LOUDLY, I might add. by the standards of today, the way the 'climate' is, you don't see at ALL how an organization that declares "Long Live the RACE" might put a few people OFF? Maybe even sound 'exclusionary'? I sure do.

Of course, it's not evil; nor is it a hard-core group like the KKK. But I can certainly see how ANY group calling itself "The Race"...right in the MIDDLE of a society where "race" has become a "taboo" subject..MIGHT cause people to feel negatively about it, AND about its motives....and yes, I can EASILY see why some people might be tempted to say "if it's OK for YOU, why isn't it OK for US?".

"Lost in Translation"? Well, perhaps, yes. Maybe that's part of the problem. If you're so determined to promote your "raza" that you can't even SEE that the word sounds offensive in English (which IS, after all, STILL the language of MOST of your audience) then maybe the bad feelings it engenders are partly the feeling that "These people just don't care WHO they offend"..maybe that's a big part of it right there.

Nothing personal here; not criticizing you as an individual...only making a point. We live in 'sensitive' times....and "la Raza" is a very INSENSITIVE thing to label one's group, if you expect to have others "like" you....(if you don't CARE if others like you, then again, that probably explains a lot, too.)

PS When I say "you", I don't mean you personally.."you" is anybody associated with ANY such group.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
In the FIRST place, our "OP" on this thread is hardly a 'neutral' character, as I'm sure you're aware. Keep that in mind.

SECONDLY, in regard to your above statement, it's true such organizations do exist. The "Sons if Italy", for example, is quite active in the Catholic church. Its members, by the way, include MANY non-Italians...so do many Filipino-Catholic and Irish-Catholic groups include ethnic "others" in their membership.

It may be true that nobody "calls them names"..but that's a little different from a group calling itself "the race" OR "the people". If YOU (those who are members) are "the people", what do they call NON-members?


I've writtem many posts on this, way back months ago. ANY of these 'ethnic pride' groups, while not altogether 'racist', come pretty close to being at LEAST rude and dismissive. WE live in a harsh society, and there's not a lot of understanding out there these days; and it may be OK to see a "Festa San Giuseppe" or a "Saint Paddy" bumper sticker..but by the time you get to "God Loves Italians"...or "Thank God I'm Irish", it begins to get a LITTLE rude. Not illegal; not racist, MAYBE..but a little rude. It says "We're IN, and you're NOT..and I'M sure glad I'm not YOU...because MY group is SPECIAL, and you're not part of it". I the second grade, we were taught this is "rude" behavior. I believe it still is, for adults as well.

In a more relaxed time, these things were "OK". Life was tough, and we all took our "lumps", and we didn't 'whine'...but those days are gone, and today, we DO whine...and very LOUDLY, I might add. by the standards of today, the way the 'climate' is, you don't see at ALL how an organization that declares "Long Live the RACE" might put a few people OFF? Maybe even sound 'exclusionary'? I sure do.

Of course, it's not evil; nor is it a hard-core group like the KKK. But I can certainly see how ANY group calling itself "The Race"...right in the MIDDLE of a society where "race" has become a "taboo" subject..MIGHT cause people to feel negatively about it, AND about its motives....and yes, I can EASILY see why some people might be tempted to say "if it's OK for YOU, why isn't it OK for US?".

"Lost in Translation"? Well, perhaps, yes. Maybe that's part of the problem. If you're so determined to promote your "raza" that you can't even SEE that the word sounds offensive in English (which IS, after all, STILL the language of MOST of your audience) then maybe the bad feelings it engenders are partly the feeling that "These people just don't care WHO they offend"..maybe that's a big part of it right there.

Nothing personal here; not criticizing you as an individual...only making a point. We live in 'sensitive' times....and "la Raza" is a very INSENSITIVE thing to label one's group, if you expect to have others "like" you....(if you don't CARE if others like you, then again, that probably explains a lot, too.)

PS When I say "you", I don't mean you personally.."you" is anybody associated with ANY such group.

I think I've seen that as a recurring theme in your posts. Kind of like a "why do you think you're more special than me? I feel left out" kind of thing. You shouldn't get offended so easily. And don't always think of the worst possible intentions.
It's kind of self-centered to think another groups pride, is had just to make you felt left out.
Do you feel at a disadvantage because other ethnic groups feel "special" about themselves?

I don't mind when other groups love their culture and ethnicity. I actually enjoy it myself. I love ethnic celebration, and ethnic pride of other groups. I don't see it as "they think they're more special than me". I see it as them being proud of their heritage, and I feel like I benefit from their heritage pride.

And I think those are the people who are best off. People who can accept differences of people not like them, and even enjoy them.
And no, that doesn't include African female circumcision, or anything like that that might be brought up.

And "la raza" isn't meant to offend, as much as it is meant to unify a group of people who had little identity in this country, and had a sort of ambiguous place in the shadows. If you think it's made to offend others, you might be a little paranoid.

Do Christian groups acting like their religion is "special" and forcing their way into everything, no matter who they offend, bother you too?

50 years ago, there was a lot less "ethnic pride", and I don't think we were a better country without it.


I think it's ironic when people from well represented groups don't think it's necessary for less represented minorities to speak up for themselves as a group.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:28 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
I think I've seen that as a recurring theme in your posts. Kind of like a "why do you think you're more special than me? I feel left out" kind of thing. You shouldn't get offended so easily. And don't always think of the worst possible intentions.
Do you get offended when New Yorkers bash California? Do you feel at a disadvantage because other ethnic groups feel "special" about themselves?

I don't mind when other groups love their culture and ethnicity. I actually enjoy it myself. I love ethnic celebration, and ethnic pride of other groups. I don't see it as "they think they're more special than me". I see it as them being pride of their heritage, and I feel like I benefit from their heritage pride.

And I think those are the people who are best off. People who can accept differences of people not like them, and even enjoy them.
And no, that doesn't include African female circumcision, or anything like that that might be brought up.

And "la raza" isn't meant to offend, as much as it is meant to unify a group of people who had little identity in this country, and had a sort of ambiguous place in the shadows. If you think it's made to offend others, you might be a little paranoid.

Do Christian groups acting like their religion is "special" and forcing their way into everything, no matter who they offend, bother you too?

50 years ago, there was a lot less "ethnic pride", and I don't think we were a better country without it.


I think it's ironic when people from well represented groups don't think it's necessary for less represented minorities to speak up for themselves as a group.
Yet: it is acceptable for a Mexican national of any actual race/ethnicity to identify as a Mexican.

That same rule should apply to Americans as well-------------irrespective of our ancestral heritage.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:34 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Yet: it is acceptable for a Mexican national of any actual race/ethnicity to identify as a Mexican.

That same rule should apply to Americans as well-------------irrespective of our ancestral heritage.
Not sure how that ties in, but I don't recall saying any groups of Americans shouldn't identify as Americans.

There lots of Chinese-Mexicans, Lebanese-Mexicans, Japanese-Mexicans. They identify as Mexicans too, but also as Japanese, Chinese, etc.
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Old 02-06-2009, 08:35 PM
 
706 posts, read 1,312,752 times
Reputation: 308
La Raza racist? So people can't form organizations based on ethnic heritage anymore? No more Sons of Norway or B'nai B'rith?

Racism isn't a problem until people use violence on the basis of race, ethnicity, or place of origin, like the anti-immigration nuts are using government force to unfairly restrict competition in the labor market north of the "border".
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