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Old 02-04-2009, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
^^
It's the same reason why those who lived furthest from the 9/11 attacks and probably any realistic terrorist target have been the loudest on that issue.

The liberal versus conservative attitudes on immigration are similarly just rooted in a sometimes irrational psychology.

Liberals tend to be engaged in the global economy (most notably on the east and west coasts) and have embraced a globalizing society in which the arbitrary boundaries between nations are relics of a bygone era. They have moved beyond defining themselves by the political boundaries of any particular nation. Thus, the perceived lack of patriotism and the overall apathy toward immigration. Liberals experience in their work and personal lives the impending openness of a world without borders (much like the United States when it was formed and faded the boundaries between states).

Social conservatives tend to be rooted in stricter political and social boundaries, whether it is only identifying with those of the same religion or the strict boundaries of a nation. Tinged with a fear of the "other", it is a very "us versus them" worldview.

Both sides are important for a young culture such as ours - for it is as legitimate in our current circumstances to demand one invest in a nation before taking resources from it as it is legitimate to see the impending collapse of political boundaries and a society no longer defined by nation-states.
Illegal immigration is no longer confined to the border states. Every state in this nation now has large illegal alien populations, and the ensuing economic woes inherent in having large numbers of workers willing to settle for substantially lower wages than the average U.S. citizen.

This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. This is an issue of right vs. wrong, and legal vs. illegal. One would have to be living in a remote cave not to be cognizant of the globalization of our economy. Yes, we must compete against countries paying ‘slave’ wages. However, should we lower our standards and also rely on ultra-cheap labor to remain competitive?

Should we rescind all laws, and open our borders, and relinquish our sovereign status? Should we disband our military? After all, if we are no longer a nation with borders, and no longer sovereign, why would we need a military? What would we have to defend?

So, in this “world without borders” should we have any laws, or should we embrace anarchy? Should we simply permit all of the uneducated low-skilled workers of the world to have unfettered access to our country and jobs, and subjugate our middle-class? Should we have any personal boundaries, or should we be permitted to live in whatever house we choose, notwithstanding ownership and occupation by others?

I’m trying to understand your utopian world. Please expound.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:31 AM
 
2,153 posts, read 4,896,578 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I find it interesting that the people who live the farthest from the Mexican border are often the ones who complain the loudest about this issue.
Looking at the state California is currently in, it might be in your best interest to be a little bit louder yourself about some of these issues that are affecting you guys.
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Old 02-04-2009, 07:47 AM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I find it interesting that the people who live the farthest from the Mexican border are often the ones who complain the loudest about this issue.
Chicago is a sanctuary city and we are overrun with illegals. As a matter of fact, when the May 2006 'We Demand Amnesty' marches were held, we had the largest crowd of all so please do not give me this 'you don't live near the border' nonsense. There are a number of other IL residents on the forum who can tell you the same thing.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:07 AM
 
46 posts, read 87,641 times
Reputation: 26
When the new state budget passes, CA residents will finially feel the real cost of illegal immigration. More sales tax, income tax and business tax. I'm disgusted living in this state.
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:46 AM
 
54 posts, read 64,549 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
So California is broke but according to illegal alien lover.." Illegals are a positive to our country"....hmmm something seems some what wrong then.

I mean they dont pay taxes but get Medi-cal...food stamps...and every other free aid..so how in the heck are they helping us? More like ruining us !

They put absolutey nothing back into this country. Take Take Take.

And honestly the jobs they do use to be done by American teenagers when I was a teen....Wash dishes,cook and other 1st time teen jobs.
Seems to me all they are doing is taking jobs American teens would do "if " they could get them...but they cant because the employer will not hire an American for those jobs anymore...why................because then the employer would probably have to pay for health care cost...thats why !

So please people stop the B.S talk about illegals helping this country..they are 1 of the biggest cost that is killing California and many other states...Wake up peopel in California and vote those "jokers " out of office.
Immigrants are simply doing the low-wage jobs that Americans don't want to do anymore. And in California (as well as everywhere else), good luck finding any Anglos who are willing to spend hours in the fields, wash dishes, clean house, cook, etc. (and re: finding teenagers who'll do that... are you kidding!). It's also why Republicans like to make alot of noise about the issue, but beyond that (and some occasional token moves), they're mostly in the pocket of Big Business, that exploits the cheap labor.

BTW, speaking of Cali, how's that weather workin' for 'ya in "Staten Island"...?
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:50 AM
 
1,156 posts, read 1,545,224 times
Reputation: 1148
Khali-porn-ya is broke....and because they are soooo stupid....they deserve to be broke...

...to the tune of 42 BILLION DOLLARS.....

But we love illegals.....they're soooo cute!
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Old 02-04-2009, 09:55 AM
 
167 posts, read 406,243 times
Reputation: 91
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ming_on_Mongo View Post
Immigrants are simply doing the low-wage jobs that Americans don't want to do anymore. And in California (as well as everywhere else), good luck finding any Anglos who are willing to spend hours in the fields, wash dishes, clean house, cook, etc. (and re: finding teenagers who'll do that... are you kidding!). It's also why Republicans like to make alot of noise about the issue, but beyond that (and some occasional token moves), they're mostly in the pocket of Big Business, that exploits the cheap labor.

BTW, speaking of Cali, how's that weather workin' for 'ya in "Staten Island"...?
I know of many young men, Anglos, who work on the farms, wash dishes, cook etc. and do not complain. I am sure with the tanking economy, there are many more that would do it and be grateful for employment and a paycheck.

The fact is they are illegally invading this country and are not welcome. The further the ecomony tanks, the more and more the illegals will find they are unwelcome. They are lawbreakers. They are stealing from the average american and legal citizen of this country.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:17 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,531,616 times
Reputation: 4209
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Illegal immigration is no longer confined to the border states. Every state in this nation now has large illegal alien populations, and the ensuing economic woes inherent in having large numbers of workers willing to settle for substantially lower wages than the average U.S. citizen.

This is not a liberal vs. conservative issue. This is an issue of right vs. wrong, and legal vs. illegal. One would have to be living in a remote cave not to be cognizant of the globalization of our economy. Yes, we must compete against countries paying ‘slave’ wages. However, should we lower our standards and also rely on ultra-cheap labor to remain competitive?

Should we rescind all laws, and open our borders, and relinquish our sovereign status? Should we disband our military? After all, if we are no longer a nation with borders, and no longer sovereign, why would we need a military? What would we have to defend?

So, in this “world without borders” should we have any laws, or should we embrace anarchy? Should we simply permit all of the uneducated low-skilled workers of the world to have unfettered access to our country and jobs, and subjugate our middle-class? Should we have any personal boundaries, or should we be permitted to live in whatever house we choose, notwithstanding ownership and occupation by others?

I’m trying to understand your utopian world. Please expound.
Well, did Virginia and Pennsylvania and New York disband their militaries and relinquish power to a unifying federal government to be stronger? Do you need new citizenship to work in Colorado if you live in Utah?
States retain the Constitutional right to defend themselves should the need arise. But the need hasn't arisen since the Civil War. The system has actually worked out pretty well.

It's not utopian, it's just the natural course of humanity when copyright laws are ignored outside of one country or environmental protections that affect the entire planet non existent another. The economy already exists without many borders. Government just moves slower. But it's a natural need for a global government - which, before you freak out, has been attempted throughout the twentieth century by some of our most respected leaders to end wars and bring global peace after horrific wars - League of Nations, UN. Both are powerless, though.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:19 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ming_on_Mongo View Post
Immigrants are simply doing the low-wage jobs that Americans don't want to do anymore. And in California (as well as everywhere else), good luck finding any Anglos who are willing to spend hours in the fields, wash dishes, clean house, cook, etc. (and re: finding teenagers who'll do that... are you kidding!). It's also why Republicans like to make alot of noise about the issue, but beyond that (and some occasional token moves), they're mostly in the pocket of Big Business, that exploits the cheap labor.

BTW, speaking of Cali, how's that weather workin' for 'ya in "Staten Island"...?
Try again.

Those jobs that were 'beneath one's dignity' not so long ago are looking very good to unemployed Americans now.

The hell with the illegal aliens-----they can return home and stay there. Ungrateful criminals.
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:20 AM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,126 posts, read 25,784,820 times
Reputation: 16226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Happy Cells View Post
Khali-porn-ya is broke....and because they are soooo stupid....they deserve to be broke...

...to the tune of 42 BILLION DOLLARS.....

But we love illegals.....they're soooo cute!

You'd be surprised to find that the majority of Californians (cute play on words though.. ) are AGAINST illegal immigration. And no, we don't deserve to be broke, that's an absolutely horrible thing to say, especially considering we supply more than 1/10th of the NATIONS agricultural products (including 90% of the nations wine). If we go broke, guess who's food prices will go even higher? Everyone's!
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