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Old 02-04-2009, 11:21 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,615,542 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Well, did Virginia and Pennsylvania and New York disband their militaries and relinquish power to a unifying federal government to be stronger? Do you need new citizenship to work in Colorado if you live in Utah?
States retain the Constitutional right to defend themselves should the need arise. But the need hasn't arisen since the Civil War. The system has actually worked out pretty well.

It's not utopian, it's just the natural course of humanity when copyright laws are ignored outside of one country or environmental protections that affect the entire planet non existent another. The economy already exists without many borders. Government just moves slower. But it's a natural need for a global government - which, before you freak out, has been attempted throughout the twentieth century by some of our most respected leaders to end wars and bring global peace after horrific wars - League of Nations, UN. Both are powerless, though.
Irrelevant: the USA is a sovereign nation. Mexico and and Canada are not parts of the USA. As for the Civil War: the Federal authority issue over the states was settled.

'nuff said!
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Old 02-04-2009, 11:52 AM
 
11,145 posts, read 13,531,616 times
Reputation: 4209
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Irrelevant: the USA is a sovereign nation. Mexico and and Canada are not parts of the USA. As for the Civil War: the Federal authority issue over the states was settled.

'nuff said!
Not irrelevant. I never said Mexico and Canada are part of the U.S. I simply pointed out that the U.S. is a strong model applicable on a global scale - rather than states coming together, it'd be nations. Fighting against other nations is like a wide receiver fighting with a running back for the football. While they are each autonomous individuals, ultimately they're on the same team.

The brilliance of the founders wasn't in creating a nation, but in creating a philosophical system of governance that actually serves the highest aspirations of human beings.
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:23 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,068,069 times
Reputation: 2244
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Not irrelevant. I never said Mexico and Canada are part of the U.S. I simply pointed out that the U.S. is a strong model applicable on a global scale - rather than states coming together, it'd be nations. Fighting against other nations is like a wide receiver fighting with a running back for the football. While they are each autonomous individuals, ultimately they're on the same team.

The brilliance of the founders wasn't in creating a nation, but in creating a philosophical system of governance that actually serves the highest aspirations of human beings.
jaque mate
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Old 02-04-2009, 12:51 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,709,656 times
Reputation: 1285
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Not irrelevant. I never said Mexico and Canada are part of the U.S. I simply pointed out that the U.S. is a strong model applicable on a global scale - rather than states coming together, it'd be nations. Fighting against other nations is like a wide receiver fighting with a running back for the football. While they are each autonomous individuals, ultimately they're on the same team.

The brilliance of the founders wasn't in creating a nation, but in creating a philosophical system of governance that actually serves the highest aspirations of human beings.
What if the rest of the world is not interested in adopting our 'philosophical system of governance'? Who are we to say they should? Maybe the South Sea Islanders like their own system of governance better.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Dorchester
2,602 posts, read 4,212,764 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnUnidentifiedMale View Post
I find it interesting that the people who live the farthest from the Mexican border are often the ones who complain the loudest about this issue.
So if someone breaks into my house through the kitchen door and I happen to be in the den, I should just relax?!
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Dorchester
2,602 posts, read 4,212,764 times
Reputation: 1082
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
^^
It's the same reason why those who lived furthest from the 9/11 attacks and probably any realistic terrorist target have been the loudest on that issue.

The liberal versus conservative attitudes on immigration are similarly just rooted in a sometimes irrational psychology.

Liberals tend to be engaged in the global economy (most notably on the east and west coasts) and have embraced a globalizing society in which the arbitrary boundaries between nations are relics of a bygone era. They have moved beyond defining themselves by the political boundaries of any particular nation. Thus, the perceived lack of patriotism and the overall apathy toward immigration. Liberals experience in their work and personal lives the impending openness of a world without borders (much like the United States when it was formed and faded the boundaries between states).

Social conservatives tend to be rooted in stricter political and social boundaries, whether it is only identifying with those of the same religion or the strict boundaries of a nation. Tinged with a fear of the "other", it is a very "us versus them" worldview.

Both sides are important for a young culture such as ours - for it is as legitimate in our current circumstances to demand one invest in a nation before taking resources from it as it is legitimate to see the impending collapse of political boundaries and a society no longer defined by nation-states.
Liberals feel.
Conservatives think.
You are correct that they need each other.
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Old 02-04-2009, 01:46 PM
 
Location: USA
200 posts, read 299,335 times
Reputation: 66
* REVISED ALL WORKING LINKS, keep adding to the list.

------

28 Reasons to Deport Illegal Aliens

1. $11 Billion to $22 billion is spent on welfare to illegal aliens each year.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters7fd 8

2. $2.2 Billion dollars a year is spent on food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

3. $2.5 Billion dollars a year is spent on Medicaid for illegal aliens.
http://www.cis.org/articles/2004/fiscalexec.html

4. $12 Billion dollars a year is spent on primary and secondary school education for children here illegally.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

5. $17 Billion dollars a year is spent for education for the American-born children of illegal aliens, known as anchor babies.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

6. $3 Million Dollars a DAY is spent to incarcerate illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

7. 30% percent of all Federal Prison inmates are illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

8. $90 Billion Dollars a year is spent on illegal aliens for Welfare & social services by the American taxpayers.
http://premium.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/29/ldt.01.html

9. $200 Billion Dollars a year in suppressed American wages are caused by the illegal aliens.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0604/01/ldt.01.html

10. The illegal aliens in the United States have a crime rate that's two and a half times that of white non-illegal aliens. In particular, their children, are going to make a huge additional crime problem in the United States.
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0606/12/ldt.01.html

11. During the year of 2005 there were 4 to 10 MILLION illegal aliens that crossed our Southern Border also, as many as 19,500 illegal aliens from Terrorist Countries. Millions of pounds of drugs, cocaine, meth, heroine and marijuana, crossed into the U. S. from the Southern border. Homeland Security Report:
http://www.house.gov/mccaul/pdf/Investigaions-Border-Report.pdf

12. The National Policy Institute, "estimated that the total cost of mass deportation would be between $206 and $230 billion or an average cost of between $41 and $46 billion annually over a five year period."
http://www.nationalpolicyinstitute.org/pdf/deportation.pdf

13. In 2006 illegal aliens sent home $45 BILLION in remittances back to their countries of origin.
http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_nation http://www.contracostatimes.com/mld/cctimes/news/nation/15795654.htm?source=rss&channel=cctimes_nation

14. "The Dark Side of Illegal Immigration: Nearly One Million Sex Crimes Committed by Illegal Immigrants In The United States".
http://www.drdsk.com/articles.html

15. Every day 12 Americans are murdered by an illegal alien. Another 13 Americans are killed by uninsured drunk illegal aliens and Eight American Children are victims of a sex crime committed by an illegal alien each day!
http://www.house.gov/apps/list/hearing/ia05_king/col_20060505_bite.html

16. Today, criminal aliens account for over 29 percent of prisoners in Federal Bureau of Prisons facilities and a higher share of all federal prison inmates. These prisoners represent the fastest growing segment of the federal prison population. Incarceration of criminal aliens cost an estimated $624 million to state prisons (1999) and $891 million to federal prisons (2002), according to the most recent available figure from the Bureau of Justice Statistics.
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServer?pagename=iic_immigrationissuecenters0b9 c

17. "Illegal Aliens and American Medicine". "Many illegal aliens harbor fatal diseases that American Medicine fought and vanquished long ago, such as drug-resistant tuberculosis, malaria, leprosy, plague, polio, dengue and Chagas disease." The Journal of American Physicians and Surgeons
http://www.jpands.org/jpands1001.htm

18. In 2002, HIV/AIDS was the third leading cause of death among Hispanic men aged 35 to 44 and the fourth leading cause of death among Hispanic women in the same age group. Most Hispanic men were exposed to HIV through sexual contact with other men. Source (CDC):
http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/resources/factsheets/hispanic.htm

19. If enacted the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act (CIRA, S. 2611) would be the most dramatic change in immigration law in 80 years, allowing an estimated 103 million persons to legally immigrate to the U.S. over the next 20 years - fully one-third of the current population of the United States.
http://www.heritage.org/Research/Immigration/wm1076.cfm

20. In 2007, legal and illegal aliens cost the federal government more than $346 BILLION dollars and the U.S. taxpayers paid more than $ 9,000. for each immigrant in the country!
http://www.esrresearch.com/Rubensteinreport.pdf

21. The number of illegal immigrants in the United States may be as high as 20 million people, more than double the official 9 million people estimated by the Census Bureau. 1/3/05
http://www.bearstearns.com/bscportal/pdfs/underground.pdf

22. Cases of Leprosy on The Rise In The U.S., The New York Times. "While there were some 900 recorded cases in the United States 40 years ago, today more than 7,000 people have leprosy.." Leprosy is an airbourne virus, it can also be spread by touching and coughing.
http://www.stevequayle.com/News.alert/03_Disease/030226.leprosy.in.US.htmlhttp://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-03-15/whitford-americanleprosy http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=78621

23. Two-thirds of illegal aliens lack a high school degree, the primary reason tehy create a fiscal deficit is their low education levels and resulting low incomes and tax payments, nto their legal status or heavy use of most social services.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

24. America Welcomes Illegal's Contagious Disease.
http://www.rense.com/general64/ill.htm

25. Mexico is the 4th Richest Oil Nation in the World.
www.latinamericanstudies.org/mexico/lopez-portillo.htm

26. The United Nations list Mexico as the number one center for the supply of young children to international pedophile organizations.
http://www.uri.edu/artsci/wms/hughes/mexico.htm

27. An illegal alien parent receives welfare benefits on behalf of his or her U.S. citizen child. regardless of the parentís immigration status may receive welfare and other benefits. When such a child receives assistance, the aid also helps support the childís family. Page 1. http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

28. In fiscal year 1995, about $1.1 billion in AFDC and Food Stamp benefits were provided to household with an illegal alien parent.
http://www.gao.gov/archive/1998/he98030.pdf

Last edited by Vlad-The-Impaler; 02-04-2009 at 02:30 PM..
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Old 02-04-2009, 04:14 PM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,202,011 times
Reputation: 1007
Mingo-on-mong wrote:
"Imigrants are simply doing the low-wage jobs that Americans don't want to do anymore. And in California (as well as everywhere else), good luck finding any Anglos who are willing to spend hours in the fields, wash dishes, clean house, cook, etc. (and re: finding teenagers who'll do that... are you kidding!). It's also why Republicans like to make alot of noise about the issue, but beyond that (and some occasional token moves), they're mostly in the pocket of Big Business, that exploits the cheap labor.

BTW, speaking of Cali, how's that weather workin' for 'ya in "Staten Island"...? ........"

The weather in S.I....its cold.

You are totally wrong about Anglos not doing the jobs anymore..That another B.S. liberal talking tactic.
The problem is the Anglos are to smart to take a job wih out health care and thats why these people who hire illegals should be LOCKED UP ! Oh and hows the money situation in Cali........Oh and by the way I already got my Tax refund...did you...No...You got a I.O.U...

Thank your Illegals for that 1 also..
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:39 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,809,199 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Well, did Virginia and Pennsylvania and New York disband their militaries and relinquish power to a unifying federal government to be stronger? Do you need new citizenship to work in Colorado if you live in Utah?
States retain the Constitutional right to defend themselves should the need arise. But the need hasn't arisen since the Civil War. The system has actually worked out pretty well.

It's not utopian, it's just the natural course of humanity when copyright laws are ignored outside of one country or environmental protections that affect the entire planet non existent another. The economy already exists without many borders. Government just moves slower. But it's a natural need for a global government - which, before you freak out, has been attempted throughout the twentieth century by some of our most respected leaders to end wars and bring global peace after horrific wars - League of Nations, UN. Both are powerless, though.
Youíre really grasping at straws. Try again.

Iíll pose the same question I have asked ad nauseam of other pro-illegal/open borders posters. Can you offer us ONE valid reason why we should support illegal aliens or grant them amnesty?

For your convenience, the following are not.

They are already here.
There are too many to deport.
They do the jobs U.S. citizens wonít do.
They are hardworking and decent.
They only want a better life.
Our government has allowed them to be here.
Most are not criminals.
They help us compete in this global economy.
They canít make these wages in their countries of origin.
Many have US-born children.
The second or third generation will assimilate.
They pay taxes and get nothing in return.
We are a country of immigrants.
No human is illegal.
Lettuce will cost $10 without them.
If we legalize them, we can collect more taxes.
They need to come out of the shadows and be identified.
If legalized, they wonít drive without a license and insurance.
We are an aging society, and they are making babies.
We stole this land, so itís not ours.
Leviticus 19:34

And the piece de resistance. . . . We are a world without borders.
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Old 02-04-2009, 05:43 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
You’re really grasping at straws. Try again.

I’ll pose the same question I have asked ad nauseam of other pro-illegal/open borders posters. Can you offer us ONE valid reason why we should support illegal aliens or grant them amnesty?

For your convenience, the following are not.

They are already here.
There are too many to deport.
They do the jobs U.S. citizens won’t do.
They are hardworking and decent.
They only want a better life.
Our government has allowed them to be here.
Most are not criminals.
They help us compete in this global economy.
They can’t make these wages in their countries of origin.
Many have US-born children.
The second or third generation will assimilate.
They pay taxes and get nothing in return.
We are a country of immigrants.
No human is illegal.
Lettuce will cost $10 without them.
If we legalize them, we can collect more taxes.
They need to come out of the shadows and be identified.
If legalized, they won’t drive without a license and insurance.
We are an aging society, and they are making babies.
We stole this land, so it’s not ours.
Leviticus 19:34

And the piece de resistance. . . . We are a world without borders.
This stuff is just TOO racist to comment on...so I won't. But I WILL say, you're a BIG OL' MEANIE !!!.....
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