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Old 02-05-2009, 10:46 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,433 posts, read 16,754,308 times
Reputation: 16460

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Icenet View Post
When the new state budget passes, CA residents will finially feel the real cost of illegal immigration. More sales tax, income tax and business tax. I'm disgusted living in this state.
So glad I left. So unfortunate my friends and family haven't (yet).

One reason I left was all the spanish being spoken everywhere. And the stores with NO English tags on the food. And my former landlady who gushed at how wonderful their march was.

California needs to adopt the law that Arizona and Oklahoma have. Make employers responsible for their hiring practices and make the penalties count. Make those who shelter and encourage illegals responsible for breaking the law. Open a spot in the border for the illegals to go home with an amnesty where agressive enforcemnt will follow. Take back the state from those who have invaded it.

Maybe we wouldn't be having the mess in Sacramento if that happened.

And the ancor babies, send them back with mom. When they grow up they still have citizenship, but only them. Can't sponser mom or the family. Must speak English and be able to pass a background check. Children under the age of 18 born here should not be guarenteed residency until they can enter properly as an adult. That would help stem the tide.

And with things going how they are economically, don't be surprised if legal residents and citizens won't be willing to do some of these jobs so they have one, but of course the employers will have to pay better than slave wages.
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Old 02-05-2009, 10:52 AM
emh
 
298 posts, read 761,362 times
Reputation: 148
Quote:
Originally Posted by kerrymac View Post
So California is broke but according to illegal alien lover.." Illegals are a positive to our country"....hmmm something seems some what wrong then.

I mean they dont pay taxes but get Medi-cal...food stamps...and every other free aid..so how in the heck are they helping us? More like ruining us !
Food Stamps is a federal program. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for it.

Medi-cal is jointly paid for by the federal government and the state government. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for that either (except for emergency care).

I'm sorry...what was your point again? Other than to reveal your own ignorance?
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:04 AM
emh
 
298 posts, read 761,362 times
Reputation: 148
And by the way, illegal immigrants do pay taxes:

Reason Foundation Commentary: Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think

And note that this article was written by the Reason Foundation, a free-market (i.e., right-wing) think tank.

Here are a couple of key passages:

"A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes."

"What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year."

"Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume."
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Maryland, U.S.A.
68 posts, read 127,082 times
Reputation: 50
Default mateo45 loves the $$$ from his slumlord properties!

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
No doubt there are alot of people in the unemployment line who'd also claim they're just "too smart" to do certain jobs because of the wages, conditions, health care, etc., ... but that's their choice, and not the fault of anybody else who might be willing to work for less, or whatever else the employer requires.
Yeah, like accepting non-living wages and ignoring OSHA violations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
It's called "hard work", and immigrants of all nationalities have been doing it for generations now to get ahead.
There’s a difference between hard work borne of shattering desperation and hard work borne of pride from being an active stakeholder in your field, your community, your society, your country, and your world.

The class elites of the U.S. (on the left and the right) have been championing the former at the expense of the latter. You are our proud class of American exploiters. If we could deport your ruling boss/slumlord class instead of the illegal aliens, many of us would.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
What you're describing is simply the old resentment these newcomers have always faced, as though "native" Anglos are somehow "entitled" to the higher-paying jobs, w/benefits, etc.. And in any case, if you're looking to assign "blame", the Republican "laissez faire" attitude towards businesses & hiring practices hasn't helped your cause either.
You’re being almost as racist as the “liberal” woman in my neighborhood who said she’d rather live near the “Spanish” people than the “blacks” because the “Spanish” kept nicer lawns and houses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
BTW, I have some rental properties, mostly older but in good condition & catering to low-income folks, and several are located in agricultural areas, with a large hispanic population.
At least you disclose how you profit from open borders and “free” trade. I give you credit for that much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
My own experience has been that even with lower incomes, the hispanic folks are usually much better tenants, very family-oriented, and somehow they always manage to pay their rent on time and provide for their families, even if it means taking several low-paying jobs to do it.
It’s called being used to desperation, extreme poverty, and subsistence living. It’s called social collectivism borne of Third World living conditions like civil war and slash-and-burn agriculture.

You are basically giving the finger to every American who grew up in a nuclear family that held tenaciously to individual self-reliance.

You know, people like this 93-year-old childless widower WWII vet who died alone and frozen and didn’t ask for assistance when his heat shut off:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090205/NEWS06/902050366/Bay+City+vet+who+froze+left+hospital+a+fortune

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
But the low-rent Anglo tenants, not so much.... and worse, whenever they can't pay the rent, hold onto a job, whatever, it seems that they're always the first to make excuses and try to claim that they're "victims" (which pretty much sounds like the argument you're making).
Why don’t you just use the universal liberal slur against poor Anglos. It’s more honest than dancing around it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mateo45 View Post
And "broke" or no, as a former NY resident, I'm proud to report that lately around here, it's been about 65 degrees or so and sunny....!
If you are a Democrat, you embody the reason I left that party and became an independent this January.

Last edited by AmericanAnomie; 02-05-2009 at 11:07 AM.. Reason: minor
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanAnomie View Post
Yeah, like accepting non-living wages and ignoring OSHA violations.



There’s a difference between hard work borne of shattering desperation and hard work borne of pride from being an active stakeholder in your field, your community, your society, your country, and your world.

The class elites of the U.S. (on the left and the right) have been championing the former at the expense of the latter. You are our proud class of American exploiters. If we could deport your ruling boss/slumlord class instead of the illegal aliens, many of us would.



You’re being almost as racist as the “liberal” woman in my neighborhood who said she’d rather live near the “Spanish” people than the “blacks” because the “Spanish” kept nicer lawns and houses.



At least you disclose how you profit from open borders and “free” trade. I give you credit for that much.



It’s called being used to desperation, extreme poverty, and subsistence living. It’s called social collectivism borne of Third World living conditions like civil war and slash-and-burn agriculture.

You are basically giving the finger to every American who grew up in a nuclear family that held tenaciously to individual self-reliance.

You know, people like this 93-year-old childless widower WWII vet who died alone and frozen and didn’t ask for assistance when his heat shut off:
http://www.freep.com/article/20090205/NEWS06/902050366/Bay+City+vet+who+froze+left+hospital+a+fortune



Why don’t you just use the universal liberal slur against poor Anglos. It’s more honest than dancing around it.



If you are a Democrat, you embody the reason I left that party and became an independent this January.
VERY well stated! From another former Democrat, now an Independent.
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:41 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by emh View Post
And by the way, illegal immigrants do pay taxes:

Reason Foundation Commentary: Illegal Immigrants are Paying a Lot More Taxes Than You Think

And note that this article was written by the Reason Foundation, a free-market (i.e., right-wing) think tank.

Here are a couple of key passages:

"A stunning two-thirds of illegal immigrants pay Medicare, Social Security and personal income taxes."

"What's more, aliens who are not self-employed have Social Security and Medicare taxes automatically withheld from their paychecks. Since undocumented workers have only fake numbers, they'll never be able to collect the benefits these taxes are meant to pay for. Last year, the revenues from these fake numbers — that the Social Security administration stashes in the “earnings suspense file” — added up to 10 percent of the Social Security surplus. The file is growing, on average, by more than $50 billion a year."

"Beyond federal taxes, all illegals automatically pay state sales taxes that contribute toward the upkeep of public facilities such as roads that they use, and property taxes through their rent that contribute toward the schooling of their children. The non-partisan National Research Council found that when the taxes paid by the children of low-skilled immigrant families — most of whom are illegal — are factored in, they contribute on average $80,000 more to federal coffers than they consume."
Irrelevant:

Illegal aliens as a group are criminals (ID theft is a felony) so they need to leave the USA post haste.

Too: with our own tanking economy; we need those jobs that 'no American will do' to go to Americans/green card holders---------the hell with anybody else.

And if the (dying) Yupple class 'cannot' afford to pay proper wages to Americans for their lawncare/nannies, etc.---------tough. I have no sympathy for that breed of Yuppie, they can work like the rest of us
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Old 02-05-2009, 11:51 AM
Status: "happy again, no longer catless! t...." (set 21 days ago)
 
Location: Cushing OK
14,433 posts, read 16,754,308 times
Reputation: 16460
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
VERY well stated! From another former Democrat, now an Independent.
You can add one more to that list.
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:25 PM
 
Location: AL
2,477 posts, read 2,207,482 times
Reputation: 1007
Ehm wrote:
"Food Stamps is a federal program. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for it.

Medi-cal is jointly paid for by the federal government and the state government. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for that either (except for emergency care).

I'm sorry...what was your point again? Other than to reveal your own ignorance"

Me ignorant...You must be a fool I am gathering.
You must be ignorant if you think that these illegals are not getting all these benifits.
You state that Medi-cal can only be received by illegals in emergency situations...Hmmm your right. You see when an illegal walks into a hospital emergency room..it instantly becomes an emergency. Understand these illegals use Hospital emergency room as their regular doctors visits..Headache,fever routine doctor stuff. So who is paying for it? Right.....Medi-cal or your tax dollars...you choose.
Food stamps are not eligible to illegals...come wake ! The fraud in food stamps is out of control.

Let me tell you people something..Being retired from law enforcement I have seen this done so many times it would make your head spin. Hospitals "CANT" turn away anyone..most of you people out there in forum land are smart enough to know how much a hospital stay is..$$$. Do you think there are enough American and "Legal" citzens in California to bankrupt Medi-cal..give me a break already.


Like I said you can believe me or not I do not care..But illegal lover talking points and B.S. are what has got us in this situation and..........."I REPEAT AGAIN..IF YOU LIKE ILLEGALS SO MUCH THEN YOU DONATE YOUR OWN $$$$ AND HELP ILLEGALS. LEAVE OUR TAX MONEY ALONE!"
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:47 PM
 
54 posts, read 64,648 times
Reputation: 34
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bluefly View Post
Actually, just looking objectively, I'm not sure this is true.

There is a logical correlation between education levels and increasing social liberalism.

The more people think and analyze, which is what college and graduate school does (despite myths that it indoctrinates people to think a certain way), the more they realize the current situation is failing us and work to create something better. Their solutions may not be the wisest, but they are efforts at moving beyond the divisions that hold us back - whether they be between religions or immigrants of nations.

When you think about it, there's a reason undereducated people tend to be attracted more to religion and flock toward people like Sarah Palin (6 years at 5 colleges to get a journalism degree) and educated people tend toward Obama (Columbia, Harvard, Editor of the Harvard Law Review).

Obviously not universally applicable, but I'm just talking in broad generalities. I'm not trying to incite a debate here. Just observing general trends that liberals tend to "think" a lot more than they are given credit for and conservatives tend to move on gut feelings a lot more than they would like to admit.
You make a good point, and over the past few years Republicans have been so successful specifically thru identifying and exploiting the "wedge" issues (i.e. immigration, gays, abortion, etc.) that especially appeal to a more "emotional", "anti-intellectual" and reactionary constituency (a.k.a. the "base").
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Old 02-05-2009, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by emh View Post
Food Stamps is a federal program. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for it.

Medi-cal is jointly paid for by the federal government and the state government. And illegal immigrants aren't eligible for that either (except for emergency care).

I'm sorry...what was your point again? Other than to reveal your own ignorance?
News Flash: Illegal aliens are also “ineligible” to work in this country. Correct me if I’m mistaken, but haven’t millions of illegals managed to circumvent that little inconvenient law?

Illegal aliens do in fact receive EVERY benefit they are not entitled to, from welfare to subsidized housing; and Medi-Cal is one of the favorites of illegal aliens of the parasitic persuasion.

Furthermore, many deliberately and repeatedly give birth to take advantage of the myriad benefits their US-born children are afforded. This is a salient factor in the widespread budget deficits states are now experiencing.

Quote:
Illegal immigrants aren't entitled to welfare, called CalWORKs. But their citizen children are. Roughly 190,000 kids are receiving welfare checks that pass through their parents. The cost: about $500 million, according to the nonpartisan Legislative Analyst's Office.

Schwarzenegger has proposed removing these children from the welfare rolls after five years. It's part of a broader proposal to also boot off, after five years, the children of U.S. citizens who aren't meeting federal work requirements. There'd be a combined savings of $522 million.

The state is spending $775 million on Medi-Cal healthcare for illegal immigrants, according to the legislative analyst. Of that, $642 million goes into direct benefits. Practically all the rest is paid to counties to administer the program. The feds generally match the state dollar-for-dollar on mandatory programs.

So-called emergency services are the biggest state cost: $536 million. Prenatal care is $59 million. Not counted in the overall total is the cost of baby delivery -- $108 million -- because the newborns aren't illegal immigrants.

The state also pays $47 million for programs that Washington does not require: Non-emergency care (breast and cervical cancer treatment), $25 million; long-term nursing home care, $19 million; abortions, $3 million.
Illegal immigrants are a factor in California's budget math - Los Angeles Times


It would behoove you to refrain from calling others ignorant. Obviously, you haven’t done your homework.
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