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Old 02-07-2009, 11:29 AM
 
3,536 posts, read 5,078,866 times
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I personally believe that most Americans are not for illegal immigration. I believe that we should have more options for legal entry (guest worker programs, more sponsorships, less waiting periods for citizenship or visas). Illegal immigration hurts the lowest sector of our society. With that said, it is also very important to help those illegals already here. They live among the poorest of our nation. They attend the same schools, go to the same hospitals, play at the same parks. However, they obtain the worst quality education, healthcare, and services. Racial profiling runs unchecked in these areas. We should help these illegals that already live here. Helping them would help the poor as well. Helping the poor would help provide the stimilus our country needs. We need to increase our budget for public education.

So I guess I'm more for compassionate reform of the law, and also for compassion for those already in our borders. I'd rather have my tax dollars go towards education where also poor Americans benefit, than going towards deporting every illegal immigrant. It would be futile to try. So again, not pro-illegal immigration, just pro-compassion.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:42 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,898,849 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I personally believe that most Americans are not for illegal immigration. I believe that we should have more options for legal entry (guest worker programs, more sponsorships, less waiting periods for citizenship or visas). Illegal immigration hurts the lowest sector of our society. With that said, it is also very important to help those illegals already here. They live among the poorest of our nation. They attend the same schools, go to the same hospitals, play at the same parks. However, they obtain the worst quality education, healthcare, and services. Racial profiling runs unchecked in these areas. We should help these illegals that already live here. Helping them would help the poor as well. Helping the poor would help provide the stimilus our country needs. We need to increase our budget for public education.
I agree the majority of Americans are indeed against illegal immigration. It's unfortunate that many in our government, the ethnocentric racist groups and the corporate masters are not in step with the desires of the majority of US citizens.

As for your proposal of more guest workers? I staunchily disagree with that proposal. America grants entry and citizenship annually to more foreign nationals than all of the rest of the world combined. We need to go back to the original premise for legal immigration. Only those who offer a skillset or can fill a job that NO AMERICAN can or is willing to fill should be allowed legal entry to the US. Legal immigrants who are allowed to work in the US should be the sole responsibility of that employer. No free social services or healthcare courtesy of American taxpayers should be allowed. Any children born to said legal immigrant during his/her time in this country should be declared a citizen of that immigrants country and the sole financial responsibility of that immigrant as well.

We do not have the obligation or financial ability to take in and care for the world's poor. Taking in and paying to provide and care for the millions of poverty stricken illegal aliens (primarily from SOB) has played a major part in the current economic collapse of this country. It's time for those who are unhappy at home to do what my people did during the civil rights era. Demand what they are entitled to from their own countries/government.

Quote:
So I guess I'm more for compassionate reform of the law, and also for compassion for those already in our borders. I'd rather have my tax dollars go towards education where also poor Americans benefit, than going towards deporting every illegal immigrant. It would be futile to try. So again, not pro-illegal immigration, just pro-compassion.
We do agree on one thing: I too would rather have my tax dollars benefit AMERICANS ONLY. Said Americans would not be inclusive of anchor babies who IMHO are not Americans but citizens by virtue of deliberate skewing of the verbiage contained in the 14th Amendment. Two illegal aliens cannot produce an American. At least one parent should be a LEGAL US CITIZEN.

As for it being futile to deport every illegal alien, I disagree. We (America and Americans) are capable of doing whatever we invest our time, resources and energy into accomplishing. That being said, if they cut off the freebies, I guarantee you the majority of the illegals (including those with anchor babies) would leave of their own volition.

Great post!

Last edited by JDubsMom; 02-07-2009 at 12:01 PM..
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:51 AM
 
49 posts, read 121,371 times
Reputation: 50
Spain actually got rid of its immigration problem, by making anyone already resident a citizen. Basically they calculated that having illegals meant around 4 billion dollars in lost revenue: taxes not paid to the government, etc. In addition, enforcing this was costing 2 billion dollars: lost trade, enforcing borders etc. Despite dire warnings of chaos the nett effect has been positive.
Preventing people from moving to where jobs are is one of the most damaging economic things you can do to a country. There is no argument for discriminating against someone on the grounds of where they are born except racism.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:52 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I personally believe that most Americans are not for illegal immigration. I believe that we should have more options for legal entry (guest worker programs, more sponsorships, less waiting periods for citizenship or visas). Illegal immigration hurts the lowest sector of our society. With that said, it is also very important to help those illegals already here. They live among the poorest of our nation. They attend the same schools, go to the same hospitals, play at the same parks. However, they obtain the worst quality education, healthcare, and services. Racial profiling runs unchecked in these areas. We should help these illegals that already live here. Helping them would help the poor as well. Helping the poor would help provide the stimilus our country needs. We need to increase our budget for public education.

So I guess I'm more for compassionate reform of the law, and also for compassion for those already in our borders. I'd rather have my tax dollars go towards education where also poor Americans benefit, than going towards deporting every illegal immigrant. It would be futile to try. So again, not pro-illegal immigration, just pro-compassion.
That group of people simply needs to be deported------------problem solved.

We 'owe' them nothing----------they as a group are criminals by definition.

Trust me: we have plenty of Americans who are hurting very badly right now-------------they come first.
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Old 02-07-2009, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomegenius View Post
Spain actually got rid of its immigration problem, by making anyone already resident a citizen. Basically they calculated that having illegals meant around 4 billion dollars in lost revenue: taxes not paid to the government, etc. In addition, enforcing this was costing 2 billion dollars: lost trade, enforcing borders etc. Despite dire warnings of chaos the nett effect has been positive.
Preventing people from moving to where jobs are is one of the most damaging economic things you can do to a country. There is no argument for discriminating against someone on the grounds of where they are born except racism.
Actually: Spain paid many non Spanish citizen residents to leave----------including New World Hispanics.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:03 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by that1guy View Post
I personally believe that most Americans are not for illegal immigration. I believe that we should have more options for legal entry (guest worker programs, more sponsorships, less waiting periods for citizenship or visas). Illegal immigration hurts the lowest sector of our society. With that said, it is also very important to help those illegals already here. They live among the poorest of our nation. They attend the same schools, go to the same hospitals, play at the same parks. However, they obtain the worst quality education, healthcare, and services. Racial profiling runs unchecked in these areas. We should help these illegals that already live here. Helping them would help the poor as well. Helping the poor would help provide the stimilus our country needs. We need to increase our budget for public education.

So I guess I'm more for compassionate reform of the law, and also for compassion for those already in our borders. I'd rather have my tax dollars go towards education where also poor Americans benefit, than going towards deporting every illegal immigrant. It would be futile to try. So again, not pro-illegal immigration, just pro-compassion.

I can certainly appreciate your compassion for the downtrodden. I feel compassion as well. However, I specifically requested that you ignore your emotions and deal with this issue objectively. The basis for your stance on this issue is purely emotional. You feel sorry for them.

Can you try to examine this issue from a different perspective? There are 20+ million foreigners illegally residing in our country. Our tax dollars are paying to educate the children, provide medical treatment, and myriad other services. Our citizens are suffering. Millions are unemployed, thousands have lost their homes, and the future isnít looking very rosy. Can you not understand that we simply can no longer accommodate millions of illegal aliens?

It isnít an issue of compassion, or lack thereof; rather, itís an issue of survival for the citizens of this country. If I could wave a magic wand and save the entire impoverished world, I would. We canít save the world. We canít even save ourselves.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:28 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,801 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17694
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomegenius View Post
Spain actually got rid of its immigration problem, by making anyone already resident a citizen. Basically they calculated that having illegals meant around 4 billion dollars in lost revenue: taxes not paid to the government, etc. In addition, enforcing this was costing 2 billion dollars: lost trade, enforcing borders etc. Despite dire warnings of chaos the nett effect has been positive.


Ok, first define who "they" is?
We've already had an amnesty here and all that has done is drive another 20 million to sneak across the border. Like I said in another thread, do you think making someone a citizen is going to somehow make them wealthy enough to reach the lowest part of the tax brackets where they actually pay taxes.


Preventing people from moving to where jobs are is one of the most damaging economic things you can do to a country. There is no argument for discriminating against someone on the grounds of where they are born except racism.
Of course you knew Illegal Immigrants come in all flavors right? So, please inform me how an American of Irish decent is against Illegal Immigrants coming from Ireland of which we have thousands, is racism?


If Illegal Immigrants could come live here, be productive and not use social services there wouldn't be clamor to evict them. We are paying dearly just allowing their existence here.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Awesomegenius View Post
Spain actually got rid of its immigration problem, by making anyone already resident a citizen. Basically they calculated that having illegals meant around 4 billion dollars in lost revenue: taxes not paid to the government, etc. In addition, enforcing this was costing 2 billion dollars: lost trade, enforcing borders etc. Despite dire warnings of chaos the nett effect has been positive.
Preventing people from moving to where jobs are is one of the most damaging economic things you can do to a country. There is no argument for discriminating against someone on the grounds of where they are born except racism.
Please explain how legalizing millions of uneducated and low-skilled workers will benefit this country; particularly, given their predilection for large families. With the number of exemptions they will claim on their meager wages, there wonít be any taxes withheld other than a miniscule amount for FICA/Medicare. Furthermore, they will rely on government assistance. In the final analysis, they will be nothing but a burden.

True to pro-illegal form, the race card is played. How pathetic.
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Old 02-07-2009, 12:52 PM
 
3,712 posts, read 5,711,852 times
Reputation: 1285
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Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
Not even God himself could convince most of you that you are on the wrong side of the issue( Well, He can but most of yall would just ignore it). Judging from all the remarks so far, it is even pointless to try.
If you cannot come up with even one cogent argument supporting illegal immigration, how do you know we are wrong?
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Old 02-07-2009, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andreabeth View Post
If you cannot come up with even one cogent argument supporting illegal immigration, how do you know we are wrong?
Exactly! How can you fervently believe in a cause, if you canít even offer one legitimate justification to support it? Itís a classic illustration of sheeple syndrome.
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