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Old 02-08-2009, 07:30 AM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,685,038 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by joeldew View Post
G'day BigDaddyG,

In some respects, I might have been comparing apples with oranges but the subtext is very similar - society's perception and treatment of immigrants (illegal or legal)

I mentioned in another thread that the first wave will experience the harshest treatment by society. It's not until the second or the third wave does the harshness gets somewhat diluted.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that their children will grow up to be fine pillars of society
Correct me if I am wrong here:

Are your 'Asian' immigrants to Oz are mostly legal? If such is the case; they likely will assimilate and simply become 'Aussies' (or their children will)--------much like our Asians who arrived here.

It is the illegal aliens that I (and many other Americans) are prejudiced against irrespective of actual race/ethnicity. They as a group are insolent criminals----------especially being that most of them come from countries where starvation is not an issue. Read that such are economic 'refugees' at most which are not our problem.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by gizmo980 View Post
Fine, I'll bite - although it looks like you've had a few pages of responses already. But for the record, you're only getting silence because most of us are smart enough to avoid this forum... it's dominated by a certain type, and anyone who even thinks of being "apologetic" or sympathetic is jumped on like a rabid dog. To answer your question, I have a few good reasons:

1. They are human, and I believe all decent humans deserve to be treated as such. And no, I don't consider them criminals for coming here illegally - desperate times call for desperate measures, and I wouldn't be surprised if a few people here had ancestors who "hid on the boat."
2. Borders are an arbitrary thing anyway, and I don't believe in punishing somebody for being born on the wrong side of one.
3. Conditions in the countries they leave are obviously deplorable, or they wouldn't risk everything to come here illegally.
4. We are supposed to be a prosperous nation (at least until recent years), which was founded by immigrants for the purpose of being somewhat of a save haven.
5. Most "anti-illegals" I have encountered are just covering their racism and disdain for Latino people, and I'm inclined to take the opposite stance from people like that.
6. Immigrants will still come here illegally, whether you like it or not... so I believe it's more beneficial to take useful actions, than to keep sending them back. Most illegal residents I have met work VERY hard, get paid next to nothing, and don't receive any benefits. Why not give them legitimate jobs with fair wages, and have them pay taxes like the rest of us? Not to mention healthcare, which would behoove us to provide for anyone living in this country.

I can't really argue the financial side or politics in-depth, since this isn't a subject I spend time researching or studying. But if we can hand over like 80% of call-center jobs to India, we obviously still have jobs to spare... either that, or the powers-that-be in the country are so incompetent, it's no surprise we are in such dire straits right now. Okay, are those enough reasons? I'm not expecting to argue these points, since they are simply from my heart - and nobody can debate somebody's heart, can they?? Well, I guess that is possible on City-Data, LOL.
And what “certain type” might that be?

Obviously, it’s ok for posters on other forums to “jump on” those they disagree with; but when it’s done here, we’re “rabid.” It's the apex of intellectual dishonesty for you to demonize the posters on this forum, in light of some of the boorish discussions elsewhere.

Illegal immigration is an emotional issue, and the lives of some of the posters on this forum have been ravaged by these criminal interlopers. Understandably, the discussions will be more intense than if discussing the latest tabloid gossip, the legalization of marijuana, or the color of Michelle Obama’s dress. We had a regular poster who lost his business because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors employing illegal aliens. He was unmercifully taunted by ‘certain’ pro-illegal posters, until he completely lost his composure and was banned. We are ALL human, and we all have feelings. But hey, what’s the problem? Who cares if a U.S. citizen loses his/her livelihood?

You have the audacity to spew accusations of racism and inhumanity, while you come here and treat us like subhuman pariahs simply because we oppose illegal immigration. When did YOU become the arbiter of decency and moral turpitude? By what authority is YOUR opinion gospel?

According to your ‘logic’ we shouldn’t have ANY laws. There are many desperate people in this country -- some steal and some kill due to sheer desperation and hopelessness. Should they also be absolved of their crimes? Desperation is not a valid reason to violate the law -- it’s an excuse. All of your self-righteous ‘justifications’ are nothing but excuses for your inane support of illegal aliens. The only way you can reconcile your support for lawlessness and the raping of this country, is by vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. Yet, you are “decent” and we aren’t. What a joke.

Instead of sitting on your high horse supporting quasi slavery and the decimation of the middle-class, you could show just a modicum of compassion for the millions of citizens of this country who are losing their homes and can’t support their children, while millions of illegal aliens are still employed.

If these illegal aliens should become legalized, then you and your ‘compassionate’ ilk can watch your tax dollars dwindle into oblivion, and you can sip a champagne cocktail while you revel at this country’s implosion. It’s almost worth it just to see all of you ‘moral’ folks dining on crow.

I am not a racist. However, I AM sick and tired of watching the rampant corruption fueling this illegal immigration travesty. I have really had enough of people like you who claim the moral high ground, yet have nothing substantive by which to defend your position. It isn’t ‘right’ simply because YOU say so.

Give it your best shot; you can’t make me feel inferior. As a black person, I was taught at an early age NEVER to internalize the hatred and insecurities of others. I have dealt with your kind for many years. You have this compelling need to debase others to make yourself feel good. Well you have chosen the wrong one this time.

Have a good day, and enjoy your delusions of grandeur.
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:41 AM
 
Location: Land of Sunshine & Sh*t
163 posts, read 203,553 times
Reputation: 131
Quote:
Originally Posted by joeldew View Post
G'day BigDaddyG,

In some respects, I might have been comparing apples with oranges but the subtext is very similar - society's perception and treatment of immigrants (illegal or legal)

I mentioned in another thread that the first wave will experience the harshest treatment by society. It's not until the second or the third wave does the harshness gets somewhat diluted.

Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and hope that their children will grow up to be fine pillars of society
Unfortunately with our economy spiraling further and further down the crapper on a daily basis, we no longer have the luxury of "hoping" something good will happen.

As far as giving them the benefit of the doubt, we've done that for far too many years now and what has it gotten us?

And yes, I think most Americans are holding the government that allowed our laws to be ignored and the business that hire illegals to blame for this mess. But the bad feelings toward illegal aliens is also caused by them...we resent their arrogant attitudes to America and it's citizens. That's what is held against them, not that they want a "better life" but that they feel it is owed to them by us.

It's like the old adage says "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".
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Old 02-08-2009, 08:46 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,912,726 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And what “certain type” might that be?

Obviously, it’s ok for posters on other forums to “jump on” those they disagree with; but when it’s done here, we’re “rabid.” It's the apex of intellectual dishonesty for you to demonize the posters on this forum, in light of some of the boorish discussions elsewhere.

Illegal immigration is an emotional issue, and the lives of some of the posters on this forum have been ravaged by these criminal interlopers. Understandably, the discussions will be more intense than if discussing the latest tabloid gossip, the legalization of marijuana, or the color of Michelle Obama’s dress. We had a regular poster who lost his business because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors employing illegal aliens. He was unmercifully taunted by ‘certain’ pro-illegal posters, until he completely lost his composure and was banned. We are ALL human, and we all have feelings. But hey, what’s the problem? Who cares if a U.S. citizen loses his/her livelihood?

You have the audacity to spew accusations of racism and inhumanity, while you come here and treat us like subhuman pariahs simply because we oppose illegal immigration. When did YOU become the arbiter of decency and moral turpitude? By what authority is YOUR opinion gospel?

According to your ‘logic’ we shouldn’t have ANY laws. There are many desperate people in this country -- some steal and some kill due to sheer desperation and hopelessness. Should they also be absolved of their crimes? Desperation is not a valid reason to violate the law -- it’s an excuse. All of your self-righteous ‘justifications’ are nothing but excuses for your inane support of illegal aliens. The only way you can reconcile your support for lawlessness and the raping of this country, is by vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. Yet, you are “decent” and we aren’t. What a joke.

Instead of sitting on your high horse supporting quasi slavery and the decimation of the middle-class, you could show just a modicum of compassion for the millions of citizens of this country who are losing their homes and can’t support their children, while millions of illegal aliens are still employed.

If these illegal aliens should become legalized, then you and your ‘compassionate’ ilk can watch your tax dollars dwindle into oblivion, and you can sip a champagne cocktail while you revel at this country’s implosion. It’s almost worth it just to see all of you ‘moral’ folks dining on crow.

I am not a racist. However, I AM sick and tired of watching the rampant corruption fueling this illegal immigration travesty. I have really had enough of people like you who claim the moral high ground, yet have nothing substantive by which to defend your position. It isn’t ‘right’ simply because YOU say so.

Give it your best shot; you can’t make me feel inferior. As a black person, I was taught at an early age NEVER to internalize the hatred and insecurities of others. I have dealt with your kind for many years. You have this compelling need to debase others to make yourself feel good. Well you have chosen the wrong one this time.

Have a good day, and enjoy your delusions of grandeur.
Bravo, well stated and I couldn't agree more!
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,840,521 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by ovcatto View Post
Personally, I don't have a hard rock formulated opinion on the subject but, I would have to wonder why anyone would waste their time answering the challenge when it would be such an utter waste of time.

"C’mon, convince us anti’s why we are on the wrong side of this issue."


What would be the point.
Forgive me, Your Royal Highness, for not formulating my question in accordance with your incomparable standards. However, this isn’t a dissertation; it’s an informal cyberspace forum. The thread title and referenced sentence were intended as ‘lighthearted’ challenges. Sorry they were structured much too low for your uber-pomposity. Since it’s beneath you to respond, do me a favor and don’t.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:10 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,912,726 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Forgive me, Your Royal Highness, for not formulating my question in accordance with your incomparable standards. However, this isn’t a dissertation; it’s an informal cyberspace forum. The thread title and referenced sentence were intended as ‘lighthearted’ challenges. Sorry they were structured much too low for your uber-pomposity. Since it’s beneath you to respond, do me a favor and don’t.
The night crawling posters are breathtaking to say the least, aren't they? If their defense of the indefensible wasn't so pathetic it would be comical. Night or day, their: false sense of entitlement to all things American, delusions of grandeur, arrogance and insolence some how manages to remain consistent.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 02-08-2009 at 09:21 AM..
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:15 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,638,049 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And what “certain type” might that be?

Obviously, it’s ok for posters on other forums to “jump on” those they disagree with; but when it’s done here, we’re “rabid.” It's the apex of intellectual dishonesty for you to demonize the posters on this forum, in light of some of the boorish discussions elsewhere.

Illegal immigration is an emotional issue, and the lives of some of the posters on this forum have been ravaged by these criminal interlopers. Understandably, the discussions will be more intense than if discussing the latest tabloid gossip, the legalization of marijuana, or the color of Michelle Obama’s dress. We had a regular poster who lost his business because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors employing illegal aliens. He was unmercifully taunted by ‘certain’ pro-illegal posters, until he completely lost his composure and was banned. We are ALL human, and we all have feelings. But hey, what’s the problem? Who cares if a U.S. citizen loses his/her livelihood?

You have the audacity to spew accusations of racism and inhumanity, while you come here and treat us like subhuman pariahs simply because we oppose illegal immigration. When did YOU become the arbiter of decency and moral turpitude? By what authority is YOUR opinion gospel?

According to your ‘logic’ we shouldn’t have ANY laws. There are many desperate people in this country -- some steal and some kill due to sheer desperation and hopelessness. Should they also be absolved of their crimes? Desperation is not a valid reason to violate the law -- it’s an excuse. All of your self-righteous ‘justifications’ are nothing but excuses for your inane support of illegal aliens. The only way you can reconcile your support for lawlessness and the raping of this country, is by vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. Yet, you are “decent” and we aren’t. What a joke.

Instead of sitting on your high horse supporting quasi slavery and the decimation of the middle-class, you could show just a modicum of compassion for the millions of citizens of this country who are losing their homes and can’t support their children, while millions of illegal aliens are still employed.

If these illegal aliens should become legalized, then you and your ‘compassionate’ ilk can watch your tax dollars dwindle into oblivion, and you can sip a champagne cocktail while you revel at this country’s implosion. It’s almost worth it just to see all of you ‘moral’ folks dining on crow.

I am not a racist. However, I AM sick and tired of watching the rampant corruption fueling this illegal immigration travesty. I have really had enough of people like you who claim the moral high ground, yet have nothing substantive by which to defend your position. It isn’t ‘right’ simply because YOU say so.

Give it your best shot; you can’t make me feel inferior. As a black person, I was taught at an early age NEVER to internalize the hatred and insecurities of others. I have dealt with your kind for many years. You have this compelling need to debase others to make yourself feel good. Well you have chosen the wrong one this time.

Have a good day, and enjoy your delusions of grandeur.
Literary GOLD....and for once, I'm serious. The anger in this post is low-key,well-stated, articulate, and absolutely justified. Nothing here is wasted; nothing is 'mean-spirited'..It may not please everyone, but it's right on target. Worthy of publication, IMHO. Can't praise you more.
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:18 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,638,049 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raimy View Post
Unfortunately with our economy spiraling further and further down the crapper on a daily basis, we no longer have the luxury of "hoping" something good will happen.

As far as giving them the benefit of the doubt, we've done
It's like the old adage says "Give them an inch and they'll take a mile".
How about the NEW adage.."Give them an amnesty for THREE million, and they'll use THAT as a precedent to demand an amnesty for TWENTY million"?

(No, it's really not an 'adage'....I just made it up)..
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Old 02-08-2009, 09:20 AM
 
7,020 posts, read 9,912,726 times
Reputation: 1094
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Literary GOLD....and for once, I'm serious. The anger in this post is low-key,well-stated, articulate, and absolutely justified. Nothing here is wasted; nothing is 'mean-spirited'..It may not please everyone, but it's right on target. Worthy of publication, IMHO. Can't praise you more.
No kidding. It truly is one of the best post I have ever read on this or any other forum.

Last edited by JDubsMom; 02-08-2009 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 02-08-2009, 11:39 AM
 
4,828 posts, read 6,800,370 times
Reputation: 620
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
And what “certain type” might that be?

Obviously, it’s ok for posters on other forums to “jump on” those they disagree with; but when it’s done here, we’re “rabid.” It's the apex of intellectual dishonesty for you to demonize the posters on this forum, in light of some of the boorish discussions elsewhere.

Illegal immigration is an emotional issue, and the lives of some of the posters on this forum have been ravaged by these criminal interlopers. Understandably, the discussions will be more intense than if discussing the latest tabloid gossip, the legalization of marijuana, or the color of Michelle Obama’s dress. We had a regular poster who lost his business because he couldn’t compete against unscrupulous contractors employing illegal aliens. He was unmercifully taunted by ‘certain’ pro-illegal posters, until he completely lost his composure and was banned. We are ALL human, and we all have feelings. But hey, what’s the problem? Who cares if a U.S. citizen loses his/her livelihood?

You have the audacity to spew accusations of racism and inhumanity, while you come here and treat us like subhuman pariahs simply because we oppose illegal immigration. When did YOU become the arbiter of decency and moral turpitude? By what authority is YOUR opinion gospel?

According to your ‘logic’ we shouldn’t have ANY laws. There are many desperate people in this country -- some steal and some kill due to sheer desperation and hopelessness. Should they also be absolved of their crimes? Desperation is not a valid reason to violate the law -- it’s an excuse. All of your self-righteous ‘justifications’ are nothing but excuses for your inane support of illegal aliens. The only way you can reconcile your support for lawlessness and the raping of this country, is by vilifying and dehumanizing the opposition. Yet, you are “decent” and we aren’t. What a joke.

Instead of sitting on your high horse supporting quasi slavery and the decimation of the middle-class, you could show just a modicum of compassion for the millions of citizens of this country who are losing their homes and can’t support their children, while millions of illegal aliens are still employed.

If these illegal aliens should become legalized, then you and your ‘compassionate’ ilk can watch your tax dollars dwindle into oblivion, and you can sip a champagne cocktail while you revel at this country’s implosion. It’s almost worth it just to see all of you ‘moral’ folks dining on crow.

I am not a racist. However, I AM sick and tired of watching the rampant corruption fueling this illegal immigration travesty. I have really had enough of people like you who claim the moral high ground, yet have nothing substantive by which to defend your position. It isn’t ‘right’ simply because YOU say so.

Give it your best shot; you can’t make me feel inferior. As a black person, I was taught at an early age NEVER to internalize the hatred and insecurities of others. I have dealt with your kind for many years. You have this compelling need to debase others to make yourself feel good. Well you have chosen the wrong one this time.

Have a good day, and enjoy your delusions of grandeur.
You really need to calm down, what happened to the put emotions aside and discuss this issue?

Every single poster who has expressed a different opinion in this thread has been attacked by the so called "anti-illegals". That is why i still can't understand why you even started this thread. I suggest the mods close this thread because it is not going anywhere.

Quote:
I'm not expecting to argue these points, since they are simply from my heart - and nobody can debate somebody's heart, can they?? Well, I guess that is possible on City-Data, LOL
Did you forget to read that part of her post before you decided to go on your self-righteous rant?

Btw, what does being black have to do with any of what she said?

Last edited by blacknight04; 02-08-2009 at 11:48 AM..
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