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Rational reasons after rational reasons have been given here by anti illegals to refute amnesty. The anchors and other pro illegal sympathizers on here have not even tried to refute all of these rational reasons against amnesty. They can't. Instead they can only offer a few absurd touchy feely reasons for amnesty. Clearly, NO case has been made for amnesty. So then, why are the Democratic political hispanderers constantly blatantly pushing amnesty? Could it be the fact that most of any amnestied illegal aliens would be future Democratic voters? OF COURSE. And they're pushing amnesty for no other reason. The Democratic political hispanders don't even care if an amnesty would ruin this country. They are doing what they always do. BUY VOTES.
You really need to calm down, what happened to the put emotions aside and discuss this issue?
Every single poster who has expressed a different opinion in this thread has been attacked by the so called "anti-illegals". That is why i still can't understand why you even started this thread. I suggest the mods close this thread because it is not going anywhere.
Did you forget to read that part of her post before you decided to go on your self-righteous rant?
Btw, what does being black have to do with any of what she said?
I can always count on you to take my words out of context, and to try to twist them to suit your agenda. During my “rant” I mentioned my race ONLY due to its relevance to ascribed “inferior” status. Gizmo prefaced her supercilious post with a demeaning comment which set the tone. According to her, we (anti’s) are a “certain type” to be avoided. In other words, she has relegated us to the inferior status of being the horrid misfits of City Data. It is baseless, and an affront to all posters on this forum.
Unlike you, I wasn’t born in the 80’s. I was a child during the 60’s Civil Rights Movement when black was considered inferior. During that era, roller skating was popular. In my small town in Western PA (mind you, not the Deep South), we (colored) could only use the skating rink on Thursday night. Although we all lived in the same neighborhoods, attended the same schools, and played together, institutionalized racism and discrimination were prevalent. Therefore, when my white friends went skating on Saturdays, I couldn’t join them. What feelings would you expect that to engender? I could provide myriad similar anecdotes, but I think this should suffice. Consequently, my parents instilled pride in their children, and repeatedly told us that we should never feel inferior or take ownership of second-class status, under any circumstances.
The same holds true in this instance. The fact that Gizmo, or any other members, consider us anti-illegal posters to be intellectual midgets, and the forum to be the ‘trash’ bin, doesn’t mean we have to accept their faulty assessment. No one can make you feel inferior -- you must choose to accept that designation. I will ALWAYS choose to decline.
If you still don’t understand the relevance of my ‘black’ comment, I certainly can’t help you.
The type who claims this issue isn't race-related, and then goes on to make disparaging comments about Mexicans... I admittedly haven't been on here much in recent times, but when this forum started it was dominated by that type. I never claimed you're all racists, just that many are afraid to contribute because of these underlying themes.
I said you jumped on "sympathizers" like THEY were a rabid dog - never called you rabid, LOL. And yes, it does happen more on this forum than others, since there is somewhat of a mob mentality here.
As for the rest of your post, while it was well-written, I can't say much of it actually related to me... you took my words completely wrong, so it's hard for me to respond to issues and emotions I never brought up. Sorry if you thought I was "demonizing" or being condescending, but I was simply answering the questions presented. I'm also sorry nobody here can accept the reasons given (in response to the OP), but I have a feeling NO answer would be sufficient.
If I misinterpreted your “certain type” comment and the tone of your post, please accept my apology. However, it certainly appeared derogatory.
I can always count on you to take my words out of context, and to try to twist them to suit your agenda. During my “rant” I mentioned my race ONLY due to its relevance to ascribed “inferior” status. Gizmo prefaced her supercilious post with a demeaning comment which set the tone. According to her, we (anti’s) are a “certain type” to be avoided. In other words, she has relegated us to the inferior status of being the horrid misfits of City Data. It is baseless, and an affront to all posters on this forum.
Unlike you, I wasn’t born in the 80’s. I was a child during the 60’s Civil Rights Movement when black was considered inferior. During that era, roller skating was popular. In my small town in Western PA (mind you, not the Deep South), we (colored) could only use the skating rink on Thursday night. Although we all lived in the same neighborhoods, attended the same schools, and played together, institutionalized racism and discrimination were prevalent. Therefore, when my white friends went skating on Saturdays, I couldn’t join them. What feelings would you expect that to engender? I could provide myriad similar anecdotes, but I think this should suffice. Consequently, my parents instilled pride in their children, and repeatedly told us that we should never feel inferior or take ownership of second-class status, under any circumstances.
The same holds true in this instance. The fact that Gizmo, or any other members, consider us anti-illegal posters to be intellectual midgets, and the forum to be the ‘trash’ bin, doesn’t mean we have to accept their faulty assessment. No one can make you feel inferior -- you must choose to accept that designation. I will ALWAYS choose to decline.
If you still don’t understand the relevance of my ‘black’ comment, I certainly can’t help you.
And too; as our economy continues to tank: anybody who knowingly aids and abets illegal immigration needs to be punished to the fullest extent of the law up to and including incarceration/forfeiture of their assets.
Trust me: if things become much worse; there will be tribunals.
If I misinterpreted your “certain type” comment and the tone of your post, please accept my apology. However, it certainly appeared derogatory.
You understood what I meant by "certain type," but took the rest as something I didn't intend... I don't know you well enough to label you racist or otherwise, and never meant to imply that all posters here are unintelligent, lesser than myself, etc. I was merely trying to explain why you don't get many "apologists/sympathizers" responding to these questions - because throughout the City-Data forums, this one does have a reputation for harboring some racists. I'm not making that up myself, it's a widely known reputation since this forum was started.
When the posters at the beginning of this thread were boasting about how nobody COULD respond, I had to say something... basically that you would get many many intelligent responses, if most of us weren't afraid to enter this forum. I bet if you were allowed to post this on the general P&OC board, the responses would be plentiful and much more difficult to debate. Anyway, I apologize if you thought I was being degrading to you or anyone else specifically, because that was not my intent.
You understood what I meant by "certain type," but took the rest as something I didn't intend... I don't know you well enough to label you racist or otherwise, and never meant to imply that all posters here are unintelligent, lesser than myself, etc. I was merely trying to explain why you don't get many "apologists/sympathizers" responding to these questions - because throughout the City-Data forums, this one does have a reputation for harboring some racists. I'm not making that up myself, it's a widely known reputation since this forum was started.
When the posters at the beginning of this thread were boasting about how nobody COULD respond, I had to say something... basically that you would get many many intelligent responses, if most of us weren't afraid to enter this forum. I bet if you were allowed to post this on the general P&OC board, the responses would be plentiful and much more difficult to debate. Anyway, I apologize if you thought I was being degrading to you or anyone else specifically, because that was not my intent.
I'm sure immigration (read that "illegal immigration") is a topic that will ALWAYS attract its share, (and then some), of racists. I've seen plenty of them, on BOTH sides of the issue. No denying that...'racism' is the 'hot topic' of our time, and if there's ANY topic that has the REMOTEST connection with "race", it will be made into a 'racist' topic, and will attract the attention of racists. Illegal immigration is one such topic.
I'm curious, though, why this would cause anybody to be "afraid" to enter the forum. I've debated with racists endlessly, debating with racists both pro and anti-illegal....and while they may get tiresome, repetitive, and wearisome, I've often finally backed off due to the simple fatigue, boredom, or pointlessness of trying to argue with these folks, not because I'm "afraid".
Even if one WERE to allow your point..that the whole forum was, in fact, a 'hotbed' of racial intolerance; and even if ALL the racists on the forum were on the "anti-illegal" side, I still fail to see how anyone woud be "afraid" to get into the argument....UNLESS, of course, he was "afraid" that perhaps he couldn't come up with any logical arguments to support his position.
I can think of all SORTS of wacky 'screwball' positions people might come up with....even mean-spirited, narrow minded, bigoted positions....yet, I can't imagine being "afraid" to confront them, particularly on an anonymous venue such as this forum. The only thing I'd be AFRAID of is the possibility that my arguments might be taken to task, analyzed, and proven wrong, and that I might end up looking silly. Now THAT, I'd be afraid of....
You understood what I meant by "certain type," but took the rest as something I didn't intend... I don't know you well enough to label you racist or otherwise, and never meant to imply that all posters here are unintelligent, lesser than myself, etc. I was merely trying to explain why you don't get many "apologists/sympathizers" responding to these questions - because throughout the City-Data forums, this one does have a reputation for harboring some racists. I'm not making that up myself, it's a widely known reputation since this forum was started.
When the posters at the beginning of this thread were boasting about how nobody COULD respond, I had to say something... basically that you would get many many intelligent responses, if most of us weren't afraid to enter this forum. I bet if you were allowed to post this on the general P&OC board, the responses would be plentiful and much more difficult to debate. Anyway, I apologize if you thought I was being degrading to you or anyone else specifically, because that was not my intent.
Benicar is one of our more level headed posters here, trust me.
Benicar is one of our more level headed posters here, trust me.
Yes, I can tell. Many of you are level-headed, intelligent, and seemingly thoughtful folks... so I wasn't saying everyone here is a racist, although many are, which is why posters are hesitant to participate here. And for the record, I don't think anyone is in FAVOR of illegal immigration - we just aren't in favor of demoralizing illegal immigrants, conducting "witch hunts," don't support shipping them back, and certainly don't advocate violence (as some here do). I have a humanistic view of this issue, which is possibly naive, but something I cannot change about myself.
I'm sure immigration (read that "illegal immigration") is a topic that will ALWAYS attract its share, (and then some), of racists. I've seen plenty of them, on BOTH sides of the issue.
Now this is where I'm going to call you out... I've heard this sentence before (perhaps from you?), and can't see how it makes any sense. When have you seen racism from the "pro" side of this argument? I don't even know how that would be possible, since race only comes into play when speaking against immigration. Please explain.
Quote:
I'm curious, though, why this would cause anybody to be "afraid" to enter the forum. I've debated with racists endlessly, debating with racists both pro and anti-illegal....and while they may get tiresome, repetitive, and wearisome, I've often finally backed off due to the simple fatigue, boredom, or pointlessness of trying to argue with these folks, not because I'm "afraid".
Afraid might be the wrong word, so I'll use hesitant instead... one can't really be "afraid" of an online debate, I suppose, but it is VERY intimidating to enter a forum where you know you'll be jumped on and outnumbered. People have tried to use logical debate against the regulars here, and typically they end up leaving out of frustration - not because they can't back their opinions, but I imagine because nobody will LISTEN to their opinions. I could say the sky is blue, and if everyone debates me vehemently on the point, it would probably discourage me from returning. Does that make sense?
Yes, I can tell. Many of you are level-headed, intelligent, and seemingly thoughtful folks... so I wasn't saying everyone here is a racist, although many are, which is why posters are hesitant to participate here. And for the record, I don't think anyone is in FAVOR of illegal immigration - we just aren't in favor of demoralizing illegal immigrants, conducting "witch hunts," don't support shipping them back, and certainly don't advocate violence (as some here do). I have a humanistic view of this issue, which is possibly naive, but something I cannot change about myself.
So let me get this straight. Being 'Racist' automatically removes a person from being viewed as level-headed, intelligent and seemingly thoughtful? How does that work, exactly? How do you, personally, define the word 'Racist?' Some would say that a negative view of a person based on the color of their skin is 'Racist.' I personally find that definition better suited to 'prejudice.' I view 'Racism' as being dedicated to the advancement and growth of ones Race, as well as having pride in ones Race.
I don't support the demoralization of anyone and I don't advocate violence based on the immigration status of a person in this country. I do, however, wholeheartedly support shipping them back to their country of origin. Why continue to waste billions of $$ clothing, feeding, healing, incarcerating and raising people who view the 'Land of Opportunity' as a free meal ticket, when a flight costs a great deal less to the American Taxpayer.
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I suggest the mods close this thread because it is not going anywhere.
I bet if you were allowed to post this on the general P&OC board, the responses would be plentiful and much more difficult to debate. Anyway, I apologize if you thought I was being degrading to you or anyone else specifically, because that was not my intent.
Many of you are level-headed, intelligent, and seemingly thoughtful folks... so I wasn't saying everyone here is a racist, although many are, which is why posters are hesitant to participate here. And for the record, I don't think anyone is in FAVOR of illegal immigration - we just aren't in favor of demoralizing illegal immigrants, conducting "witch hunts," don't support shipping them back, and certainly don't advocate violence (as some here do). I have a humanistic view of this issue, which is possibly naive, but something I cannot change about myself.
