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Old 02-13-2009, 06:38 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,622,458 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huckleberry3911948 View Post
the notion that 21 million illegals are returning is nonesense. when its rough here its unbearable there.
Or said illegals will wind up in detention camps here in the USA.
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Old 02-13-2009, 09:53 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,813,362 times
Reputation: 3028
Iím glad to hear of ANY illegals leaving. However, I doubt if an exodus is underway. As long as they continue to receive freebies, survive by living 15-20 per dwelling, and are hired by the selfish and greedy. . . . they wonít leave of their own volition.

As our economy continues to tank, there will be far less support for illegal immigration and far more acrimony. Even the most ardent proponents will be forced to acknowledge the fact that we simply can no longer sustain this level of tax-draining foreign occupation while we now have almost 12 million unemployed U.S. citizens. Itís going to get REAL ugly if they donít leave.

Quote:
Both the number of unemployed persons (11.6 million) and the unemployment rate (7.6 percent) rose in January. Over the past 12 months, the number of un-employed persons has increased by 4.1 million and the unemployment rate has risen by 2.7 percentage points.

Total nonfarm payroll employment fell sharply (-598,000) in January.

Manufacturing employment fell by 207,000 in January, the largest 1-month decline since October 1982.

Construction lost 111,000 jobs in January.

The temporary help industry lost 76,000 jobs in January.Since its recent peak in December 2006, temporary help employment has declined by 695,000. Professional and technical services lost 29,000 jobs in January.

Retail trade employment fell by 45,000 in January and by 592,000 since a peak in November 2007. In January, employment declined in automobile dealerships (-14,000), building material and garden supply stores (-10,000), department stores (-9,000), and furniture and home furnishing stores (-7,000). Over the month, wholesale trade employment fell by 31,000.

Transportation and warehousing lost 44,000 jobs in January and 202,000 since the start of the recession. Most of the decline occurred over the last 5 months.
Additional doom can be found at this link. Employment Situation Summary
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:48 AM
 
16,438 posts, read 18,516,574 times
Reputation: 9490
Quote:
Originally Posted by ArizonaBear View Post
Or said illegals will wind up in detention camps here in the USA.
We're not going to have the money to run detention camps. Cali is turning inmates loose right now for lack of funds.
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:52 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
Reputation: 22158
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bostonian123 View Post
I thought that technically US law did not allow dual citizenship. If you apply for Mexican citizen as a US citizen, do you automatically lose your US citizenship. Please correct me if I am wrong.
USA law does allow it. It's the other countries that often don't allow it. Mexico didn't allow it for very good reason, the law was changed under Vicente Fox and now many Mexicans in the USA are regaining their Mexican citizenship because that allows them to buy up prime land using their American wages they get from American citizenship with their Mexican citizenship as a big advantage over Mexicans living in Mexico.
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Old 02-14-2009, 01:59 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,711,508 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
I think you're wrong. We've argued bitterly on this forum before whether this is "right"..I say it isn't; that citizenship, by definition, involves some concept of "loyalty", and "forsaking earlier entanglements", and swearing loyalty to the United States. I'm SURE that the legal immigration process includes swearing such an oath..(or it DID).

Yet somehow, people feel they can be loyal citizens of two, three, or MORE countries, without any conflict of interest....and today, I'm pretty sure the US Government agrees.

I don't "get" this; I believe it's contradictory and ultimately dishonest, just like becoming "faithfully married" to two or three spouses....it's a contradiction in terms. Yet today, apparently citizenship isn't looked at as a "big thing", like marriage...more like a "small thing", like holding a Visa card, AND a Mastercard, AND an American express card....nobody gets "hurt", because no loyalty is required, nor implied.

And they wonder why we can't get Americans to feel a sense of "duty" anymore.
A Greek immigrant told me once why it's important for Greeks to renounce their citizenship when they become American. With their laws, they can obtain USA citizenship and will retain Greek citizenship until they formally renounce it. If they don't, they have citizen obligations like taxes and military service. If they travel home, they can be pulled into their own draft.

Not many people choose dual citizenship if it means responsibility such as paying taxes to their homeland. With Mexican dual citizenship, they can buy up properties in Mexico that Americans cannot but most would give it up in a heartbeat if it meant paying taxes or being required to give up some time to serve in the military.
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:08 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,410,081 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post

Not many people choose dual citizenship if it means responsibility such as paying taxes to their homeland. With Mexican dual citizenship, they can buy up properties in Mexico that Americans cannot but most would give it up in a heartbeat if it meant paying taxes or being required to give up some time to serve in the military.
I have dual citizenship, I have property in Mexico and I also pay taxes.
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Old 02-14-2009, 09:36 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
I have dual citizenship, I have property in Mexico and I also pay taxes.
Good for you. And as I said, none of it means anything; it's no different from drinking Coca-Cola, AND drinking Pepsi, too. When citizenship means no more than that, then 'dual citizenship'...or 'quadruple citizenship'...is just fine.

Just make sure you never get into the position of having to "Pledge Allegiance", and you'll be OK....
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Old 02-14-2009, 10:52 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,410,081 times
Reputation: 475
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Good for you. And as I said, none of it means anything; it's no different from drinking Coca-Cola, AND drinking Pepsi, too. When citizenship means no more than that, then 'dual citizenship'...or 'quadruple citizenship'...is just fine.

Just make sure you never get into the position of having to "Pledge Allegiance", and you'll be OK....
What makes you think I would not pledge Allegiance?
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Old 02-14-2009, 11:54 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,615,066 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
What makes you think I would not pledge Allegiance?
You MIGHT pledge it; you probably DO...I'm only saying that if you DO, you're being dishonest; because "allegiance" implies exclusivity and loyalty. The "Oath of Citizenship" required for all new LEGAL citizens is sometimes called the "Oath of Allegiance". It's quite long, but it starts off by the person swearing that "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty to which I have heretofore been a subject or a citizen" etc etc etc. You're agreeing to 'forsake' your former 'loyalties' in favor of your NEW one...something like a wedding vow.

When you "swear allegiance" to the United States, you are, in effect, renouncing your allegiance to any OTHER country..(at least, that's what you're SAYING). You can not have "allegiance" to the US, and "allegiance" to Mexico, because they are two different countries, with two different agendas, and potentially, two conflicting programs. You can't be "faithful" to your husband, while being "faithful" to your boyfriend, either...you're either being dishonest with ONE, or dishonest with the OTHER....(or BOTH).

You can "pledge" anything you WANT, of course. But it doesn't mean anything, unless you yourself believe in what you're pledging. And if you're pledging to be "loyal" to two different countries, you're missing the point of loyalty. Something like being "faithful to your spouse, most of the time....unless your lover calls....".
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Old 02-14-2009, 02:14 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,799 posts, read 30,044,409 times
Reputation: 17688
It's the same as lying if you are not sincere.
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