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Old 02-15-2009, 04:33 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,414,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
You MIGHT pledge it; you probably DO...I'm only saying that if you DO, you're being dishonest; because "allegiance" implies exclusivity and loyalty. The "Oath of Citizenship" required for all new LEGAL citizens is sometimes called the "Oath of Allegiance". It's quite long, but it starts off by the person swearing that "I absolutely and entirely renounce and abjure all allegiance and fidelity to any foreign prince, potentate, state, or sovereignty to which I have heretofore been a subject or a citizen" etc etc etc. You're agreeing to 'forsake' your former 'loyalties' in favor of your NEW one...something like a wedding vow.

When you "swear allegiance" to the United States, you are, in effect, renouncing your allegiance to any OTHER country..(at least, that's what you're SAYING). You can not have "allegiance" to the US, and "allegiance" to Mexico, because they are two different countries, with two different agendas, and potentially, two conflicting programs. You can't be "faithful" to your husband, while being "faithful" to your boyfriend, either...you're either being dishonest with ONE, or dishonest with the OTHER....(or BOTH).

You can "pledge" anything you WANT, of course. But it doesn't mean anything, unless you yourself believe in what you're pledging. And if you're pledging to be "loyal" to two different countries, you're missing the point of loyalty. Something like being "faithful to your spouse, most of the time....unless your lover calls....".
That is a very interesting analogy macmeal. Of course, you can also take the analogy of father and mother. Then again, you also have countries that allow polygamy...(not my style as I am a christian). Those that know me know that I have dedicated a lot of my time to human rights in this country as well as special interest groups such as AMVETS.

While some people have forgotten about our troops unless they mention wanting them back to protect the border, I want them back HOME with their families. Enough of the trauma and violence we have subjected them for the stupid idea of getting our hands on more foreign oil. What use will it be to put them at the border when we can spare more lives by building the fence? What many dont know is that there is a very high suicide rate among our veterans from Iraq. Once they get home a lot of them end up killing themselves. Is this what we want for them? We have already put them through so much, we need to let them be HOME.

With all honesty, I think most Mexican Americans claim patriotism to the U.S. only. A few of us have dual citizenship. Then you have Mexicans who have become citizens of this country and like visiting Mexico but claim this is their homeland. I dont think you can actually say, one should do this or do that unless you, yourself is wearing the shoes.
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Old 02-15-2009, 04:44 AM
 
2,381 posts, read 4,414,646 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1AngryTaxPayer View Post
It's the same as lying if you are not sincere.
It would be a lie if I had citizenship from one country and pledge allegiance to another. However, it is documented and both countries are fully aware. Both countries allow it.

In any case, I think I would be devastated if there was actually a war between Mexico and the U.S. I love, honor and respect them both.

Going back to the thread, I think most newly arrived undocumented immigrants will adjust well to going back to Mexico. If their children are still not teens, there should be no problem adjusting to their new environment. The problem will be with the teens but I think it will be a positive experience for them. They can come back when they are adults if they so desire. Then we will have another wave of non speaking english citizens...lol.
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Old 02-15-2009, 12:04 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,627,052 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by zacatecana View Post
That is a very interesting analogy macmeal. Of course, you can also take the analogy of father and mother. Then again, you also have countries that allow polygamy...(not my style as I am a christian). Those that know me know that I have dedicated a lot of my time to human rights in this country as well as special interest groups such as AMVETS.

While some people have forgotten about our troops unless they mention wanting them back to protect the border, I want them back HOME with their families. Enough of the trauma and violence we have subjected them for the stupid idea of getting our hands on more foreign oil. What use will it be to put them at the border when we can spare more lives by building the fence? What many dont know is that there is a very high suicide rate among our veterans from Iraq. Once they get home a lot of them end up killing themselves. Is this what we want for them? We have already put them through so much, we need to let them be HOME.

With all honesty, I think most Mexican Americans claim patriotism to the U.S. only. A few of us have dual citizenship. Then you have Mexicans who have become citizens of this country and like visiting Mexico but claim this is their homeland. I dont think you can actually say, one should do this or do that unless you, yourself is wearing the shoes.
Interesting points....except for your 'polygamy' reference..(that's simply not applicable to our situation here in the West). Otherwise, I'm not arguing with you. In fact, I'm not even neccessarily blaming those individual Americans (such as yourself) who DO hold dual citizenship.

MY problem is with the US Government, for allowing this to go on. I do NOT believe it's in the best interests of the country.. Can you imagine a dual US-Soviet citizen back in the 1960's, being arrested for espionage? "No, judge, I wasn't spying on the US to 'hurt my country'..I was spying on the US to HELP my OTHER country". How about a dual US-German citizen in 1939? Each of his two countries demands that he report for military duty..(a WAR is about to begin). He flips a coin...so ONE of his two 'countries' now regards him as a military recruit, while the OTHER regards him as a traitor.

I can't see how the US allows this. Makes absoloutely ZERO sense to me, and helps to 'cheapen' the meaning of citizenship.

But that's not your fault...now that it's been 'cheapened', I suppose there's no reason NOT to be a 'dual citizen'...after all, if my own government doesn't care, why should I?

By the way, I've known many legal Mexican immigrants in my day (a few of whom were family members), and quite a number of illegals as well. TWO of the illegals I knew stayed illegal for years after they MIGHT have become legal, because they owned property in Mexico and didn't want to lose title to it by becoming American citizens. Dual citizenship would CERTAINLY be a 'help' for people like this...I just don't see how it 'helps' the US, as a society.

Thanks for your comments..
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:00 PM
 
Location: Oxygen Ln. AZ
9,321 posts, read 16,153,167 times
Reputation: 5685
If this economy gets any worse we may be going south with them. Do you think we could get a little welfare, perhaps some food stamps? How about section 8 housing?
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Old 02-15-2009, 03:07 PM
 
Location: San Diego
32,826 posts, read 30,110,492 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
If this economy gets any worse we may be going south with them. Do you think we could get a little welfare, perhaps some food stamps? How about section 8 housing?
Never fear, come Tuesday we can borrow our way out of it for another 30 years. That includes Illegal Aliens.

I bet we see a spike in illegal immigration in the coming months like never before! Word about the renewed free Social Services will spread fast.
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Old 02-15-2009, 11:00 PM
 
Location: So. California
62 posts, read 121,845 times
Reputation: 55
We will definitely see a spike in illegal immigration when the stimulus construction package hits So. California. Unless of course, legality is verified. Would hate to see millions of dollars given to only end up in the hands of illegals.
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Old 02-16-2009, 09:55 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,826 posts, read 30,110,492 times
Reputation: 17698
Quote:
Originally Posted by ddana View Post
We will definitely see a spike in illegal immigration when the stimulus construction package hits So. California. Unless of course, legality is verified. Would hate to see millions of dollars given to only end up in the hands of illegals.
Illegal Alien criminal supporters are overjoyed about E-verify being stripped from the package. This is a guarantee the leaching and bloodletting will continue with no shame what so ever.
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