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Old 02-17-2009, 04:06 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,617,384 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why do you consider this great news? I have the same concerns as the veterans. I believe we are inviting enemy infiltration, and who knows what else. Why don’t they just hire mercenaries? At least we will know they are in it for the money, and there will be no allegiance.
It COULD happen. Google the 'San Patricios' some time. A batallion of Catholics, the majority of whom were Irish immigrants, who were inducted into the American Military during the US-Mexico war of 1846-48. So 'fed up' did they become under their abusive Anglo Protestant officers, they defected to the Mexican side (a few at a time, OR in large groups) where they fought bravely among their fellow Catholics.

Most were caught by the US after the war, and about half were executed. Today the 'San Patricios' are honored throughout Mexico, and there's a large monument to them in Mexico City.

Ireland now has begun a yearly commemoration, too, in honor of these folks.

So much for 'relying on immigrants in the ranks', I guess..

(It USUALLY works, but it CAN go wrong).
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:20 PM
 
Location: US
1,189 posts, read 3,552,726 times
Reputation: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
this is great news. enlistment is below average now. they have lowered intellectual standards, and relaxed restrictions on individuals with prior criminal history.
There is a level of dumb that they will not accept, and I have witnessed said level of dumb. People actually fail the ASVAB test at MEPS-- multiple times. It isn't a matter of not getting the score they needed to get the job they wanted; they flat out failed to get the minimum score required to get shipped off as cannon fodder. I don't see how this is humanly possible, but it is.


Quote:
i highly doubt that bad will come of this. its as suspect as the claim that gang members infiltrate the armed services and take what they learn back to the hood.

thats paranoia. it wont happen.
Didn't the CIA give Al Qaeda a lot of backing in the 80s? They're pretty nice folk...
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Old 02-17-2009, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
this is great news. enlistment is below average now. they have lowered intellectual standards, and relaxed restrictions on individuals with prior criminal history.

i highly doubt that bad will come of this. its as suspect as the claim that gang members infiltrate the armed services and take what they learn back to the hood.

thats paranoia. it wont happen.

besides most people who would like to see the US fail are not the ones dying to move here. it might be those who belong to religions with extreme military factions, i.e. islam. are we now going to exclude muslims from serving in the armed services because some muslims around the world want to destroy the US?



and as i know. the armed services are a way of people getting out of the hood and making something for themselves.

thats tha way i see it. another rung on the ladder of success in the US!
i dont think the armed services are going to be over run by people intent on harming the US.

GREAT NEWS!!!
Is this paranoia? Just Google "gangs in the military" and you will discover it is in fact true.

Exclusive: Gangs Spreading In The Military, CBS News Talks To The Family Of A U.S. Soldier Killed In Gang Initiation - CBS News

Quote:
Juwan Johnson of Baltimore, Md., willingly took a savage beating to join the Chicago-based gang Gangster Disciples. He was punched, kicked and stomped until he was barely conscious. After the beating, his new brothers put Johnson back in bed where he later died from his injuries.

This did not happen in a back alley of a gang-infested urban city. It took place at Kaiserslautern Army Base in Germany.
Gangs Increasing in Military, FBI Says

Quote:
GRAFENW÷HR, Germany ó U.S. criminal gangs have gained a foothold in the U.S. military and are using overseas deployments to spread tentacles around the globe, according to the FBI.

FBI gang investigator Jennifer Simon said in an e-mail to Stars and Stripes this week that gang members have been documented on or near U.S. military bases in Germany, Italy, Japan, South Korea and Iraq.

ďItís no secret that gang members are prevalent in the armed forces, including internationally,Ē Simon said, adding that the FBI is preparing to release a report on gangs in the military.
FBI says U.S. criminal gangs are using military to spread their reach | Stars and Stripes
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Old 02-17-2009, 06:36 PM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
Reputation: 2244
and those are anomolies. those are outliers. they are sad cases. i talk to friends who have been in the service for years and they say that thugs dont last. and the rest reform.

its just not happening like yall think it is.

and we have home grown terrrorists also. those are a handful. should we limit those northern california muslim converts (think "american taliban" guy) from enlisting?

no, should we have measures and policies implemented to reduce the likelihood of treason amongs the ranks?

im sure they do.

no need to worry your lil heads over this.
its ok.







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Old 02-17-2009, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
and those are anomolies. those are outliers. they are sad cases. i talk to friends who have been in the service for years and they say that thugs dont last. and the rest reform.

its just not happening like yall think it is.

and we have home grown terrrorists also. those are a handful. should we limit those northern california muslim converts (think "american taliban" guy) from enlisting?

no, should we have measures and policies implemented to reduce the likelihood of treason amongs the ranks?

im sure they do.

no need to worry your lil heads over this.
its ok.
We have a gang problem in our military, and itís not an anomaly. When standards are lowered, riff-raff can be expected. All you have to do is research the subject, and you will learn the truth.
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Old 02-18-2009, 11:35 AM
 
Location: CITY OF ANGELS AND CONSTANT DANGER
5,409 posts, read 11,072,228 times
Reputation: 2244
ya, i talk to my buddies in the higher ranks. i talk to my nephews and younger cousins who are proudly serving. i asked about this a long time ago. they have always denied it. they say its minimal. mostly "former" (peewee) gang members. and most of the time those guys dont cut it.

but beleive what you will. i actually know people with first hand knowledge of this. stationed in CA, NC, Germany, guam. they aint tripping about this. its mostly people nervously tip tapping away at a keyboard wh oare worried about this.

much ado about nothing.

and either way, this is still great news.


deciding to let some guantanamo ex prisoners stay in the US...
maybe not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
We have a gang problem in our military, and itís not an anomaly. When standards are lowered, riff-raff can be expected. All you have to do is research the subject, and you will learn the truth.
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Old 02-19-2009, 01:12 AM
 
2,256 posts, read 2,963,718 times
Reputation: 1215
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
Why do you consider this great news? I have the same concerns as the veterans. I believe we are inviting enemy infiltration, and who knows what else. Why donít they just hire mercenaries? At least we will know they are in it for the money, and there will be no allegiance.
During the Civil War the North was so desperate for recruits that large segments of their forces were made up of fresh-off-the-boat immigrants, whose allegiance to their new country was minimal at best.

Macmeal brought up a great example, the San Patricios.

This isn't something without historical precedent.
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:17 AM
 
Location: San Diego
32,800 posts, read 30,052,880 times
Reputation: 17689
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus89 View Post
During the Civil War the North was so desperate for recruits that large segments of their forces were made up of fresh-off-the-boat immigrants, whose allegiance to their new country was minimal at best.

Macmeal brought up a great example, the San Patricios.

This isn't something without historical precedent.
How could you, here in 2009, possibly know where their allegiance stood at that time?
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:44 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by the one View Post
ya, i talk to my buddies in the higher ranks. i talk to my nephews and younger cousins who are proudly serving. i asked about this a long time ago. they have always denied it. they say its minimal. mostly "former" (peewee) gang members. and most of the time those guys dont cut it.

but beleive what you will. i actually know people with first hand knowledge of this. stationed in CA, NC, Germany, guam. they aint tripping about this. its mostly people nervously tip tapping away at a keyboard wh oare worried about this.

much ado about nothing.

and either way, this is still great news.


deciding to let some guantanamo ex prisoners stay in the US...
maybe not.
My connections in Defense Intelligence contradict your accounts of this situation. Infiltration by gangs is pervasive, and a definite threat. We will have to agree to disagree on this.
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Old 02-19-2009, 08:48 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,816,809 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by kidicarus89 View Post
During the Civil War the North was so desperate for recruits that large segments of their forces were made up of fresh-off-the-boat immigrants, whose allegiance to their new country was minimal at best.

Macmeal brought up a great example, the San Patricios.

This isn't something without historical precedent.
Yes, there are precedents; and one of those precedents should have taught us a lesson. The San Patricio Battalion was comprised of foreign immigrants who ultimately deserted the U.S. and fought on the side of the enemy. Is that what we want?

To my knowledge, there is no nationality restriction for this initiative. Consequently, we could have recruits in our military from countries wishing us harm. What would prevent an enemy nation from recruiting suicide bombers to enlist in our military to annihilate an entire company or platoon?

In our desperation to recruit for the military, we could be placing our soldiers (and our nation) in harmís way. I think we need to carefully assess the pros and cons.
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