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Old 02-18-2009, 08:40 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,694,322 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You play golf with their wives or something? How are you not "on the periphery" of this issue? What do you know that the rest of us don't that proves that Ramos and Compean didn't DELIBERATELY try to hide the inicident?

And your whole "movement" is run by a bunch of weekend warriors and "guys with computers on an internet posting site", feeding and absorbing misinformation, doing your own brand of yellow journalism on those lousy smear sites and groups. So don't knock it, lol

I'm open to any evidence that you may have that will prove Ramos and Compean are the saints your type make them out to be, but as of now, I don't see them as being worth any respect, especially since there's plenty of Border Patrol agents who do their job by the rules.
Many who even do their job while managing to be humane and compassionate to the people they capture/rescue.
Actually, I do know Monica Ramos and Joe Loya, Nacho's father-in-law. So I would say that I probably DO have more of an inside understanding of this case than you do.

It would behoove you to pay attention to that old adage, "Believe nothing of what you read (in the media), and only half of what you see."

If you had ever bothered to read the actual court transcripts you would realize that the incident WAS reported and that Ramos and Compean were merely scapegoats for a gross chain of command error. They were the fall guys for the negligence of their superior officers.

Quote:
And your whole "movement" is run by a bunch of weekend warriors and "guys with computers on an internet posting site", feeding and absorbing misinformation, doing your own brand of yellow journalism on those lousy smear sites and groups. So don't knock it, lol
Pot, meet kettle.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,824,744 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Actually, I do know Monica Ramos and Joe Loya, Nacho's father-in-law. So I would say that I probably DO have more of an inside understanding of this case than you do.

It would behoove you to pay attention to that old adage, "Believe nothing of what you read (in the media), and only half of what you see."

If you had ever bothered to read the actual court transcripts you would realize that the incident WAS reported and that Ramos and Compean were merely scapegoats for a gross chain of command error. They were the fall guys for the negligence of their superior officers.


Pot, meet kettle.
I just LOVE the smell of truth in the morning. . . . itís so invigorating.
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Old 02-18-2009, 08:57 AM
 
7,139 posts, read 12,902,141 times
Reputation: 2315
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benicar View Post
I just LOVE the smell of truth in the morning. . . . itís so invigorating.

Truth with coffee....the ultimate high.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:05 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Actually, I do know Monica Ramos and Joe Loya, Nacho's father-in-law. So I would say that I probably DO have more of an inside understanding of this case than you do.

It would behoove you to pay attention to that old adage, "Believe nothing of what you read (in the media), and only half of what you see."

If you had ever bothered to read the actual court transcripts you would realize that the incident WAS reported and that Ramos and Compean were merely scapegoats for a gross chain of command error. They were the fall guys for the negligence of their superior officers.



Pot, meet kettle.
I don't know the families but I've met some and been to a couple of the vigils, they are most definitely good people.
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Old 02-18-2009, 09:07 AM
 
47,576 posts, read 58,761,562 times
Reputation: 22163
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
You play golf with their wives or something? How are you not "on the periphery" of this issue? What do you know that the rest of us don't that proves that Ramos and Compean didn't DELIBERATELY try to hide the inicident?

And your whole "movement" is run by a bunch of weekend warriors and "guys with computers on an internet posting site", feeding and absorbing misinformation, doing your own brand of yellow journalism on those lousy smear sites and groups. So don't knock it, lol

I'm open to any evidence that you may have that will prove Ramos and Compean are the saints your type make them out to be, but as of now, I don't see them as being worth any respect, especially since there's plenty of Border Patrol agents who do their job by the rules.
Many who even do their job while managing to be humane and compassionate to the people they capture/rescue.
With all that the drug cartels are doing in Mexico, the killings going on between the drug traffickers, why on earth would anyone take the side of a Mexican drug trafficker? These are the most violent, greedy people on the planet. That part of the border where this took place is one of the most dangerous places on earth. 1608 murders in just one border town still doesn't convince you how pathetic men like Alderete are?
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Old 02-18-2009, 10:48 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,624,231 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute View Post
With all that the drug cartels are doing in Mexico, the killings going on between the drug traffickers, why on earth would anyone take the side of a Mexican drug trafficker? These are the most violent, greedy people on the planet. That part of the border where this took place is one of the most dangerous places on earth. 1608 murders in just one border town still doesn't convince you how pathetic men like Alderete are?
You'd take the side of a Mexican drug trafficker, IF you were a highly-placed US official with a vested interest in keeping the border open to unchecked illegal immigration (and a never-ending source of 'hungry', compliant, desperate labor).

By 'taking the side of a Mexican drug trafficker', you're accomplishing several objectives at once:

(1) By making that action, you're sending the message that "when illegals cross our border, they become our 'guests'. Regardless of the business they're in, it's our job to protect them....and we will".

(2) By the very fact that the two officers involved were Hispanics, you're very neatly 'quashing' any possible charges of racism in this case, and in FUTURE cases, for some time to come. You've shown that your government is willing to sacfrifice people...even people in uniform...and EVEN IF THEY'RE HISPANICS...in the interests of protecting illegal immigrants while they're in the process of 'immigrating'. You're saying, in effect, that "Hispanics are valued members of our society, and have the full rights of citizenship...but they had BETTER not get in the way of illegals...because illegals are protected by this administration..and if it ever comes down to a choice between 'Hispanic', and 'illegal', guess who's going to win?"

(3) You're ALSO sending a chilling silent message to EACH and EVERY uniformed BP officer..."Let this be a warning. You do your job, you play the part...but you will NOT interfere with the flow of cheap labor across the international border. Do so, "rock the boat", and you COULD be hustled off to Federal Prison for decades...where you MAY be severely beaten when guards 'aren't looking'. THINK before your next incident on the border, agents...do you REALLY NEED this? You DO want to see your kids grow up.don't you?" (My son was in a reserve unit comprised of about 50% BP agents...often they'd tell stories of being ordered to sit in their vehicles ALL NIGHT as people filed by in the distance. Sometimes they had to get authorization to MOVE their vehicle down the road).

(4) You're sending a message of appeasement to the Mexican government, hopefully to tone down its constant critcism of US policy..you're saying, in effect, "See, Mr. President? We're not abusng your people. We're taking CARE of them, and even those of the LOWEST ORDER...your criminal class..once they get HERE, are beneficiaries of the full protection of our US Laws. In fact, we'll even jail our OWN officers, if it comes to a choice between that, and harassing one of YOUR criminals. I HOPE this means you'll stop being mad at us"..

(5) Of course, in addition to all of the above, you MIGHT just happen to be working under a President who is the 'strong, silent type', and when he gets into an awkward 'scrape', and is advised by tens of thousands of angry citizens to "do the right thing", he MAY just send them the message "Don't tell ME what to do", and NOT do the right thing, because he's a guy who "isn't trying to win a popularity contest", and is doing remarkably well in not winning it...

Those are SOME of the reasons that you, as a public official, might "take the side of a Mexican drug trafficker"...there may be others, as well. (Maybe YOU, as a public figure, have a financial interest yourself, in drug trafficking...?...naaaah)..
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:00 PM
 
Location: SO-CAL
635 posts, read 1,124,164 times
Reputation: 2746
that's awesome news!!! what a relief for their families.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:31 PM
 
6,455 posts, read 9,528,663 times
Reputation: 10766
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Actually, I do know Monica Ramos and Joe Loya, Nacho's father-in-law. So I would say that I probably DO have more of an inside understanding of this case than you do.

It would behoove you to pay attention to that old adage, "Believe nothing of what you read (in the media), and only half of what you see."

If you had ever bothered to read the actual court transcripts you would realize that the incident WAS reported and that Ramos and Compean were merely scapegoats for a gross chain of command error. They were the fall guys for the negligence of their superior officers.



Pot, meet kettle.
Na na na na na! Take that antialphabet!

And yes I DO know Kele has met the family.

Hey Kele, I know you from the other board... and the incident in CA.
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Old 02-18-2009, 01:46 PM
 
8,649 posts, read 14,884,580 times
Reputation: 4563
Well, I'm glad they are out now they need to be given a full pardon. You listening Obama?
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Old 02-18-2009, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,900,558 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Actually, I do know Monica Ramos and Joe Loya, Nacho's father-in-law. So I would say that I probably DO have more of an inside understanding of this case than you do.

It would behoove you to pay attention to that old adage, "Believe nothing of what you read (in the media), and only half of what you see."

If you had ever bothered to read the actual court transcripts you would realize that the incident WAS reported and that Ramos and Compean were merely scapegoats for a gross chain of command error. They were the fall guys for the negligence of their superior officers.



Pot, meet kettle.
Do you know them, or did you contact them to give your support?
Go into more detail. Right now, you're basically saying "I know more than you! ".
A copy/paste where it is decided and proved that all the blame lies with the superior officers, and Ramos and Compean deserve a statue in D.C. would be nice. I'm sure you'll be above sharing that, and will tell me to look for it myself, but hey, maybe not.

So the media is only trustworthy when it gives statistics that you guys like , huh?
A criminal was running away, got shot in the buttocks, and when called out on it, they claim they heard gunshots and saw something shiny?
How well do you know these people to be 100% they didn't BS at all about the events, because, I don't know, maybe they were looking at 10 years in prison?


Pot meet kettle? I'm not part of any group or organization involved with this issue, nor do I have any contact to these kinds of organizations.
I don't really want to be a part of a group out for illegal immigrant rights because I wouldn't want to be associated with some of the attitudes and beliefs that don't jive with mine, and I wouldn't join your type of group because as a lower middle-class American, I don't feel like I'm being "oppressed" by the poor and disadvantaged.
I'm consider myself more independent in my beliefs, so I don't think I really fall into your category of cookware.

Is it not enough that I agree that they shouldn't have been sentenced to 10 years? I would think that's close enough to be considered common ground, something to agree with.
Your post still seems angry, apparently because I don't agree with you 100%, and am suspicious of the characters of these men.

I still don't understand why you guys so quickly rushed to give your unconditional support and glorified these guys.
I don't like gangbangers or criminals, but I don't quickly defend cops that get accused of beating down or shooting unarmed suspects. I like to know my law enforcement feels the pressure to go by the book.
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