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Do you know them, or did you contact them to give your support?
Go into more detail. Right now, you're basically saying "I know more than you! ".
A copy/paste where it is decided and proved that all the blame lies with the superior officers, and Ramos and Compean deserve a statue in D.C. would be nice. I'm sure you'll be above sharing that, and will tell me to look for it myself, but hey, maybe not.
So the media is only trustworthy when it gives statistics that you guys like , huh?
A criminal was running away, got shot in the buttocks, and when called out on it, they claim they heard gunshots and saw something shiny?
How well do you know these people to be 100% they didn't BS at all about the events, because, I don't know, maybe they were looking at 10 years in prison?
Pot meet kettle? I'm not part of any group or organization involved with this issue, nor do I have any contact to these kinds of organizations.
I don't really want to be a part of a group out for illegal immigrant rights because I wouldn't want to be associated with some of the attitudes and beliefs that don't jive with mine, and I wouldn't join your type of group because as a lower middle-class American, I don't feel like I'm being "oppressed" by the poor and disadvantaged.
I'm consider myself more independent in my beliefs, so I don't think I really fall into your category of cookware.
Is it not enough that I agree that they shouldn't have been sentenced to 10 years? I would think that's close enough to be considered common ground, something to agree with.
Your post still seems angry, apparently because I don't agree with you 100%, and am suspicious of the characters of these men.
Intellectually lazy? Do your own research. I did.
I don't take anything the MSM has as gospel unless I find supporting evidence. If more people took that approach, there would be a lot less ignorance floating around in this country. The U.S. is about the only country on the planet that rolls over and salivates like Pavlov's dog every time the MSM opens its collective mouths.
I KNOW them--I didn't just contact them with my support, although I've stood with them several times, as well as supported the cause of freeing these innocent men financially.
I don't take anything the MSM has as gospel unless I find supporting evidence. If more people took that approach, there would be a lot less ignorance floating around in this country. The U.S. is about the only country on the planet that rolls over and salivates like Pavlov's dog every time the MSM opens its collective mouths.
I KNOW them--I didn't just contact them with my support, although I've stood with them several times, as well as supported the cause of freeing these innocent men financially.
How is that "intellectually" lazy?
You could have just said "Are you too lazy to look yourself?"
Doesn't make sense to throw in that extra big-ish word.
I'm not too "intellectually lazy" to have this discussion with you. I'm just too lazy to go through an entire court transcript to find a specific part you're talking about. I would think you'd wanna share it to prove your point.
Yeah, like I said, you "know" them from contacting them to give your support. Meaning, you only know them through this situation. Where was the wife and father-in-law standing when the incident took place?
These court transcripts you mention...are they from the trial in which they were convicted?
How is that "intellectually" lazy?
You could have just said "Are you too lazy to look yourself?"
Doesn't make sense to throw in that extra big-ish word.
I'm not too "intellectually lazy" to have this discussion with you. I'm just too lazy to go through an entire court transcript to find a specific part you're talking about. I would think you'd wanna share it to prove your point.
Yeah, like I said, you "know" them from contacting them to give your support. Meaning, you only know them through this situation. Where was the wife and father-in-law standing when the incident took place?
These court transcripts you mention...are they from the trial in which they were convicted?
Oh for crying out loud. Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you merely argumentative for the hell of it?
This is not a discussion. This is you--deliberately misunderstanding my post (where did I say I know them because I contacted them with my support? I said that I have stood with them--take that to mean that I've stood with them at rallies, I've had lunch with them, I've also financially supported their cause--should have know I was going to have to give the standard grade school explanation) and expecting me to do your homework for you so that you don't have to be bothered. As I said, intellectually lazy. I could go through the transcripts and post relative statements, but I won't. Not because I can't but because I won't. If you truly want to say that you are well informed on this, or any other issue, you're going to have to start doing your own research instead of expecting others to do it for you.
Or, as I expect you will do, you can just continue merrily along your way believing everything you hear on TV to be the god's honest truth.
Bet you have a drawer full of Sham-Wows too dont'cha?
Oh for crying out loud. Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you merely argumentative for the hell of it?
This is not a discussion. This is you--deliberately misunderstanding my post (where did I say I know them because I contacted them with my support? I said that I have stood with them--take that to mean that I've stood with them at rallies, I've had lunch with them, I've also financially supported their cause--should have know I was going to have to give the standard grade school explanation) and expecting me to do your homework for you so that you don't have to be bothered. As I said, intellectually lazy. I could go through the transcripts and post relative statements, but I won't. Not because I can't but because I won't. If you truly want to say that you are well informed on this, or any other issue, you're going to have to start doing your own research instead of expecting others to do it for you.
Or, as I expect you will do, you can just continue merrily along your way believing everything you hear on TV to be the god's honest truth.
Bet you have a drawer full of Sham-Wows too dont'cha?
Ugh....what a cop out. But predictable.
Let me put it this way, because you seem to be the one confused: you didn't know the people before the incident, did you? You got to know them in the context of this situation, right?
Even then, what insight do they have into what happened? Did they see you as a confidant or as a supporter? You don't have to answer those questions, just saying....
And how am I argumentative? It's more your style to pop in with the aggressive style responses to other people's posts.
I'm not being obtuse, argumentative, or sesquipedalian(huh???).
If you truly want to prove these guys as being the saints you make them out to be, I would think you'd be more than willing to throw the "evidence" in my face, not to mention for the people who are also on the "periphery" of this situation..they could probably benefit from the knowledge that you have, and they don't.
Let me put it this way, because you seem to be the one confused: you didn't know the people before the incident, did you? You got to know them in the context of this situation, right?
Even then, what insight do they have into what happened? Did they see you as a confidant or as a supporter? You don't have to answer those questions, just saying....
And how am I argumentative? It's more your style to pop in with the aggressive style responses to other people's posts.
I'm not being obtuse, argumentative, or sesquipedalian(huh???).
If you truly want to prove these guys as being the saints you make them out to be, I would think you'd be more than willing to throw the "evidence" in my face, not to mention for the people who are also on the "periphery" of this situation..they could probably benefit from the knowledge that you have, and they don't.
First of all, these guys are not saints.I think it was wrong that they covered up the incident or at least tried to.But there is no way in heck that they should have spent that much time in prison or at all for that matter. The most they should have gotten was probation and the loss of their jobs. Afterall they shot a freakin drug smuggler for crying out loud. Im not sure if anyone has mentioned the fact that recently this illegal got caught with a another buttload of drugs again. Maybe the government should have thought twice about giving him that free pass to cross whenever he pleased. I mean what did they expect. I was dissapointed that Bush hadnt pardoned these two border agents sooner. But I guess pardons are only reserved for close friends like Scooter Libby, who btw got his sentenced commuted with in 30 sec. of his guilty verdict. Im really starting to resent these republicans, which I was up until this year. Dont worry Im not a demo either. I think I'll just be a centrist like our dear current President.
Last edited by MikeinIE; 02-18-2009 at 11:20 PM..
Reason: spelling
Well, I have to sympathize with these guys, and especially their families, for all that they've went through.
But they are not "heroes", no matter how hard some corners of the media would like to portray it. Fact is, they screwed up, made a terrible judgement call to tamper with evidence and try to cover up their actions, and they paid for it. As law enforcement officers they are beheld to higher standards than the rest of us, and they were sentenced accordingly.
I am glad for their families that they were able to be released, but they're still going to be paying for a while for their actions, even if they do somehow get a full pardon in the future.
Let me put it this way, because you seem to be the one confused: you didn't know the people before the incident, did you? You got to know them in the context of this situation, right?
Even then, what insight do they have into what happened? Did they see you as a confidant or as a supporter? You don't have to answer those questions, just saying....
And how am I argumentative? It's more your style to pop in with the aggressive style responses to other people's posts.
I'm not being obtuse, argumentative, or sesquipedalian(huh???).
If you truly want to prove these guys as being the saints you make them out to be, I would think you'd be more than willing to throw the "evidence" in my face, not to mention for the people who are also on the "periphery" of this situation..they could probably benefit from the knowledge that you have, and they don't.
You seem to think that the families of these men would have NO insight into what actually happened?.....okay....
No, I did not know any concerned with this case before the incident. But I got to know many afterward. I would say that there has been information I've been made aware of that you would not be privy to. Considering the fact that there will likely be further litigation in this matter on behalf of the families, I refuse to disclose anything more than what is a matter of public record.
This is my last post on the subject. Thanks to the Constitution, there is a plethora of information out there for anyone interested enough to pursue it. I don't know why I should be expected to spend my (extremely minute amount of free time) researching for you and others who can't be bothered, when I have a minimum of three papers and a presentation due every week. I'm doing enough research on my own without doing yours as well.
Curious? Like to get at the truth rather than having your truth spoon-fed to you like so much baby food? Do your own research. I'm not your research asssistant. After all, you were able to use a thesaurus...
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