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Old 02-25-2009, 08:25 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010

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Quote:
Originally Posted by blacknight04 View Post
I don't think they care about losing credibility in the eyes of the narrow minded crowd .
Oh indeed--you are so right. But then again, your definition of narrow-minded is anyone who does not agree with you.

Hello, Pot? I'd like you to meet Kettle.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kele View Post
Oh indeed--you are so right. But then again, your definition of narrow-minded is anyone who does not agree with you.

Hello, Pot? I'd like you to meet Kettle.
Hahaha, what??
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Nope, my concern is over ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS getting funded over AMERICAN kids. Typically, you combined two issues erroneously. The illegal immigrant issue and the race-based funding issue. They're SEPARATE issues. There should be NO funding for illegal immigrants as they're breaking our laws. If they want, the illegals should return to their countries of origin and apply to be foreign students. THAT is perfectly legal.

We ESPECIALLY don't owe Mexico or Mexican citizens a dang thing. If anything, we should send that country a bill for all of the social, medical and educational services we stupidly provide for its citizens. They're not OUR responsibility.

If the bleeding hearts want a project that I think most Americans would support, they should legally bring some students from Iraq here for quality education. We DO have an obligation to them.
Then what's with your referring to "white kids", and saying how hard it is for "white kids" presumably compared to non-white kids? A whole lot of Americans aren't white.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:18 AM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quote:
Originally Posted by antialphabet View Post
Since immigration status wasn't questioned for the scholarship, and probably not by Harvard, and judging on your several comments about "white kids", your concern is over minorities going to school over white kids.
What minorities are qualified then?
Is it possible for any non-Asian minorities to be good students and qualified, and accepted into an Ivy League school without it being rigged?
For some months now, I've tried to have a reasonable exchnge with you. I've mentioned over and over and over again about the many fine people I've known and worked with, who once came illegally, or whose parents did. I've mentioned having some of these people in my own family. I've repeatedly, and at length, and in great detail, gone over the way illegal immigration over the years has gone from being a 'victimless crime' to a serious social issue. I've mentioned the difference between "needing extra workers" and being forced to "accomodate" millions of unskilled people.

You've never ONCE addressed my points, that I can recall. In fact, you've seldom even MENTIONED illegal immigration, which is, after all, the topic of this forum. You seem to have only a passing interest in the subject, instead using the forum as a platform for promoting your views that "everybody hates Mexicans".

Many people, for many reasons, DO hate Mexicans....(and a lot of OTHER people as well). Many people hate blacks, whites, and Asians, as well. Some people who hate Mexicans show up on this forum to spew their hatred. I seldom try to communicate with them, feeling that there is no point in trying to educate the uneducable. I'm now going to end OUR relationship on this forum, before I myself end up in the ranks of the "haters". That would be disastrous for me, and awkward for my marriage and my family life.

For some reason, I had you pegged as a serious intellectual opponent; one whose ideas might enlighten me on a very controvesial issue, and with whom I might have a beneficial 'give-and-take' discussion.

I was mistaken. I have now come to realize that my desire to discuss the issue is one-sided; you have no desire to discuss illegal immigration, except in a passing way, in your single-minded effort to continue your "everybody hates Mexicans" message.

I no longer wish to continue in this one-sided discussion. I don't want to talk about Mexicans. I want to talk about my country, and how illegal immigration is impacting it.

In closing, I'll remind you that if you wish to continue discussing the many ways in which people have victimized Mexicans, and how Mexicans are marginalized in American society, there are NUMEROUS threads going on right now, concerning racism, discrimination, 'white privilege', etc etc. If these aren't sufficient, you could even start your OWN "why people hate Mexicans" thread; I promise to look it over, and will be GLAD to comment.

Meanwhile, this forum is about illegal immigration. I'll be more than happy to discuss illegal immigration. I do not want to speculate on why Mexicans are hated, or by whom they're hated, or how they're hated. There are other threads for exactly that topic. THIS thread is about illegal immigration.

Maybe I'll see you on another forum. On THIS forum, I have no more desire to corrrespond with you. Your ethnic loyalty supersedes all other factors in your view on the subject....and since I don't share it, there's nothing more to say. Life's too short for this sort of vitriol, and I just can't do this anymore.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
For some months now, I've tried to have a reasonable exchnge with you. I've mentioned over and over and over again about the many fine people I've known and worked with, who once came illegally, or whose parents did. I've mentioned having some of these people in my own family. I've repeatedly, and at length, and in great detail, gone over the way illegal immigration over the years has gone from being a 'victimless crime' to a serious social issue. I've mentioned the difference between "needing extra workers" and being forced to "accomodate" millions of unskilled people.

You've never ONCE addressed my points, that I can recall. In fact, you've seldom even MENTIONED illegal immigration, which is, after all, the topic of this forum. You seem to have only a passing interest in the subject, instead using the forum as a platform for promoting your views that "everybody hates Mexicans".

Many people, for many reasons, DO hate Mexicans....(and a lot of OTHER people as well). Many people hate blacks, whites, and Asians, as well. Some people who hate Mexicans show up on this forum to spew their hatred. I seldom try to communicate with them, feeling that there is no point in trying to educate the uneducable. I'm now going to end OUR relationship on this forum, before I myself end up in the ranks of the "haters". That would be disastrous for me, and awkward for my marriage and my family life.

For some reason, I had you pegged as a serious intellectual opponent; one whose ideas might enlighten me on a very controvesial issue, and with whom I might have a beneficial 'give-and-take' discussion.

I was mistaken. I have now come to realize that my desire to discuss the issue is one-sided; you have no desire to discuss illegal immigration, except in a passing way, in your single-minded effort to continue your "everybody hates Mexicans" message.

I no longer wish to continue in this one-sided discussion. I don't want to talk about Mexicans. I want to talk about my country, and how illegal immigration is impacting it.

In closing, I'll remind you that if you wish to continue discussing the many ways in which people have victimized Mexicans, and how Mexicans are marginalized in American society, there are NUMEROUS threads going on right now, concerning racism, discrimination, 'white privilege', etc etc. If these aren't sufficient, you could even start your OWN "why people hate Mexicans" thread; I promise to look it over, and will be GLAD to comment.

Meanwhile, this forum is about illegal immigration. I'll be more than happy to discuss illegal immigration. I do not want to speculate on why Mexicans are hated, or by whom they're hated, or how they're hated. There are other threads for exactly that topic. THIS thread is about illegal immigration.

Maybe I'll see you on another forum. On THIS forum, I have no more desire to corrrespond with you. Your ethnic loyalty supersedes all other factors in your view on the subject....and since I don't share it, there's nothing more to say. Life's too short for this sort of vitriol, and I just can't do this anymore.


, the posters on here are having a hard time focusing on either that this kid is an illegal immigrant, or the issue of affirmative action. You SEE that.
If it seems like I'm not discussing illegal immigration(which I have), that's because there's only so much to discuss. I don't disagree with enforcing immigration laws, and enforcing the border(in a humane way). So why am I going to argue that? You repeatedly tell me I'm not sincere, and you claim a lack of proof. My proof is that enforcing immigration is not what bothers me, there's not much for me to argue on that.

What DOES bother me is the ignorant attitudes being infused into the immigration discussion. So yeah, when I SEE those comments, I'm going to call them out, and give MY opinion on those attitudes.

I think you are reading my posts in which I bring up my being comfortable with my ethnicity, you see me mentioning the history of my group, you see me RESPONDING to unsavory comments about my group, and to you, I'm the embodiment of your fear of a multicultural America.
You always make your sarcastic comments about "oh, white people are oppressing everyone" "minority groups making an identity makes them think they are more 'special' than me", "oh those evil white people", on and on and on.
YOU'RE THE ONE who can't get over the 'white-blame', and often reply about it when it isn't even what's being implied.
What's your fixation on feeling excluded, and mad at other groups for feeling "special"? How do you translate pride in community to them rubbing it in YOUR face?
In the days you grew up, White was the thing considered special. You can take that as how you want it, but it's a fact. I prefer a society when we all think we're special, too.

I don't know if you miss the days when you were more comfortable. But these are my days, and I'm comfortable now. I have a multicultural family, a multicultural circle of friends and associates, I live in a multicultural society. This wouldn't have been as possible in the good ol days 40-50 years ago as it is today. And this was achieved by all these ethnic groups realizing their place in this country, and speaking out to make sure everybody's evenly represented. And that's not making society more segregated, its making it more integrated than it's ever been! Why that bothers you, god knows why.

And you think this is going to be the destruction of America? That's the kind of idea somebody wearing a sandwich board on a street corner would be promoting. It's better all the time, and I stand by that. Maybe you're perspective as an older American who grew up in the 50s/60s makes you more scared and intimidated of "multiculturalism".
I love it. And not because I'm this extremist you keep trying to paint as. I laugh when you start going into your drivel about how I only care about Chicanos or Latinos. I would say something, and you'd jump miles ahead by talking about my obsession with "racism" and "oppresion of Mexicans", etc etc.
I used to think, "what the hell is this guy talking about?", but now I know you're just projecting your fears onto me. You have this image of this evil multicultural society, and you're trying to peg me into that warped idea of yours.

But do you see me asking for open borders? Unlimited illegal immigration?

I don't know have many problems about enforcing immigration, so I don't argue about that. I DO have a problem with the stupid attitudes that are A LOT more prevalent in these discussions than any of you would like to admit.
If they werent, then why would I have so much damn material to be discussing with?

But the way you lashed out about "not wanting to hear about Mexicans", tell that to your buddies. If they kept a clean discussion about immigration, and didn't go into ALL THAT DISCUSSION on cultural values, crime reports, etc, etc, maybe all the "trolls" would disappear.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:39 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
"My illegal Latinos" committing crimes is not the issue. What makes me angry is my American-born daughter who has a master's degree, is 36 years old, who worked her way through 8 years of college, has been paying off her student loans for 10 years now, and will very likely be paying them off for quite a few years to come.

SHE was a promising student, too. AND a minority. AND a US citizen.

I don't expect you to 'get' this loony message....but that's what caused my outburst. THat, plus the usual hatred and xenophobia and anti-Latino vitriol, of course.
Well, clearly she wasn't a good enough student to be given any kind of scholarship. Was she Valedictorian? I applaud her on her education, but this kid was offered 7 full rides out of high school because he deserved them, not because of some BS agenda that Harvard wants to overthrow the government by giving money to illegals.

If it took your daughter 8 years, why would she get any money? The only person I know who took 8 years to get through college (including my friends who had no parental support whatsoever) was someone who spent the first 5 in her apartment smoking weed and watching TV. To get through college in 8 years, you need to be taking a very light load or taking time off. No university would give money to someone like that.

But again, you prove that you're jealous with what you said. You're upset that your daughter wasn't as qualified as this kid, and then you try to discredit him because of his immigration status (of which he had no control, being 9 when he came over the border) and because of his nationality. It's simple jealousy and nothing else. Harvard is private and can give money to anyone it wishes, and this scholarship was given because the kid deserved it (Summa C-um laude, HS Valedictorian) and it doesn't cost the taxpayers a dime.

Actually, THIS SAVES THE TAXPAYERS MONEY! Giving him $50,000 a year (which is just enough to cover tuition and living expenses in Cambridge) makes it so he has no need to live at all off the government, so you people should be happy, he's no longer going to be supported by your taxes.
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
Reputation: 226
Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
Well, clearly she wasn't a good enough student to be given any kind of scholarship. Was she Valedictorian? I applaud her on her education, but this kid was offered 7 full rides out of high school because he deserved them, not because of some BS agenda that Harvard wants to overthrow the government by giving money to illegals.

If it took your daughter 8 years, why would she get any money? The only person I know who took 8 years to get through college (including my friends who had no parental support whatsoever) was someone who spent the first 5 in her apartment smoking weed and watching TV. To get through college in 8 years, you need to be taking a very light load or taking time off. No university would give money to someone like that.

But again, you prove that you're jealous with what you said. You're upset that your daughter wasn't as qualified as this kid, and then you try to discredit him because of his immigration status (of which he had no control, being 9 when he came over the border) and because of his nationality. It's simple jealousy and nothing else. Harvard is private and can give money to anyone it wishes, and this scholarship was given because the kid deserved it (Summa C-um laude, HS Valedictorian) and it doesn't cost the taxpayers a dime.

Actually, THIS SAVES THE TAXPAYERS MONEY! Giving him $50,000 a year (which is just enough to cover tuition and living expenses in Cambridge) makes it so he has no need to live at all off the government, so you people should be happy, he's no longer going to be supported by your taxes.
Exactly, that applies to all the bitter grapes on here.

I mean, they don't just go into being angry about the school accepting him, or the scholarship foundation awarding him.

No, they have to attack the kid himself! Attack his character, coming up with all sorts of motives, calling him a cheat, disrespectul, doing it to spite all the "decent Americans".
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:49 AM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,844,964 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Exactly. THANK YOU! This is EXACTLY the problem.

And my kid had a 4.2 GPA at a magnet school for engineering, 1270 on his SATs, played football for two years, played in the band two years, won honors in a national poetry contest his junior year, was involved with the drama department and won several acting awards in competition, plus volunteered at our church. Oh, and in his spare time, he had to help clean, cook, and do laundry because I'm disabled. He wouldn't even THINK of applying to the Ivy League because it just couldn't be done. Full rides for white kids are few and far between.

I am QUITE certain that there were American students with accomplishments surpassing Juan's who would LOVE to have had that scholarship. AMERICANS should be accommodated first. Harvard is harboring and abetting a law-breaker.
But his 1270 on the SATs was only above average. My high school had AN AVERAGE SAT SCORE OF 1400 (on the old scale, out of 1600) and we saw plenty of students go to Harvard (20 out of 330), Stanford (25), Yale (15), Princeton (10), Dartmouth (10), Duke (10), Brown (10), and many other top schools. You son sounded like a good student who would get into a school ranked somewhere in the top-50, but certainly not in the top-20. SAT scores like that are nowhere near the level of the kids applying to Harvard, who have to have at least 700 on each section to even be given a look. I was a 3 sport varsity athlete (including leading one national championship hockey team in Assists), a team captain in two, a campus tour guide, principal trumpet in the concert orchestra for three years, an "environmental proctor", did community service, won multiple national awards for math and had been published as a poet. My SATs were at the Harvard level, but my grades were not. I got academic scholarships to excellent schools, but none in the top 25. I was surrounded by kids at my high school who had all my qualifications with none of my weaknesses (mediocre grades) and I didn't feel jealousy when they got into Stanford or Harvard with full rides.

You are so prejudiced and you don't even realize it. You just assume he's not qualified, but THE KID WAS OFFERED 7 FULL-RIDE SCHOLARSHIPS AND WAS HIS HS VALEDICTORIAN. You only think he doesn't deserve it because he's a Mexican immigrant.

Last edited by Pug Life; 02-25-2009 at 10:09 AM..
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Old 02-25-2009, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Los Angeles, CA
1,636 posts, read 2,898,074 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftydan6 View Post
But his 1270 on the SATs was only above average. My high school had AN AVERAGE SAT SCORE OF 1400 (on the old scale, out of 1600) and we saw plenty of students go to Harvard (20 out of 330), Stanford (25), Yale (15), Princeton (10), Dartmouth (10), Duke (10), Brown (10), and many other top schools. You son sounded like a good student who would get into a school ranked somewhere in the top-50, but certainly not in the top-20. SAT scores like that are nowhere near the level of the kids applying to Harvard, who have to have at least 700 on each section to even be given a look. I was a 3 sport varsity athlete (including leading one national championship hockey team in Assists), a team captain in two, a campus tour guide, principal trumpet in the concert orchestra for three years, an "environmental proctor", did community service, won multiple national awards for math and had been published as a poet. My SATs were at the Harvard level, but my grades were not. I got academic scholarships to excellent schools, but non in the top 25. I was surrounded by kids at my high school who had all my qualifications with none of my weaknesses (mediocre grades) and I didn't feel jealousy when they got into Stanford or Harvard with full rides.

You are so prejudiced and you don't even realize it. You just assume he's not qualified, but THE KID WAS OFFERED 7 FULL-RIDE SCHOLARSHIPS AND WAS HIS HS VALEDICTORIAN. You only think he doesn't deserve it because he's a Mexican immigrant.
She doesn't just assume, she's "QUITE certain".
If this was an Asian illegal alien, I doubt you'd see so much doubt about the kid's qualifications.
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Old 02-25-2009, 10:14 AM
 
Location: San Diego North County
4,800 posts, read 7,687,743 times
Reputation: 3010
So sweet how you all are so focused on Mexican immigrants (immigrants are LEGAL) when the actual topic--thread--forum--truly begs, pleads to address ILLEGAL immigration and its impact on the average American citizen.

Continually throwing up the race card (along with insisting on calling people in this country illegally--immigrants--my grandparents were immigrants--this person is an ILLEGAL immigrant) allows you to obfuscate and eclipse the actual issue with red-herring language and thereby divagating each thread from the original topic and bringing every discussion down to a matter of skin color or country of origin.

It's pathetic actually and I have to agree with Mac. Discussion of the concrete topic suggested by any thread is an exercise in futility as it always comes down to race with so many of you and I for one am tired enough of it all to refrain from responding to any of you.

The discussion here is the rule of law versus anarchy. Do we enforce our laws or do we allow select groups of people to make a public and conspicuous display of their disrespect for sovereign law?

Well, according to many of you on this forum--as long as that person is a Mexican illegal immigrant--violation of the law of this country is that person's birthright.

So, who are the real racists?

I think most of us have figured that out by now.
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