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Old 10-30-2009, 02:56 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
Put a kid in jail for being the top of his class in high school and being smart enough to get into Harvard.

There's something SERIOUSLY wrong with you if you actually think this way.
Have you seen that thread on how Iran and North Korea treat "illegal immigrants"? Well, from your words, you think America should be just like North Korea and Iran.

And you call yourself an American?
Seriously wrong with me? It is not as if Hernandez would be treated like crap SoB if deported back there.

Frankly; Pug Life, I have a severe problem with illegal alien apologists/enablers--------too many of them are de facto traitors and need to be dealt with accordingly.
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Old 10-30-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,719,959 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
Put a kid in jail for being the top of his class in high school and being smart enough to get into Harvard.

There's something SERIOUSLY wrong with you if you actually think this way.
Have you seen that thread on how Iran and North Korea treat "illegal immigrants"? Well, from your words, you think America should be just like North Korea and Iran.

And you call yourself an American?
I again have to agree with Arizonabear on this. Justice should be blind, brains or not, and the fact of the matter is this guy broke the law. There is already enough of a difference in justice for Harvard men and others who are fortunate enough to be smart and/or wealthy and those who are not so lucky. Why do you want to expand on that gap? The law clearly states that if someone is here illegally they should be detained, deported, and a banned from entering the US for a period of time. If you do not like that work to change it, but the law is the law and it needs to be enforced no matter who the offender is...whether they are a Harvard man or a day laborer equality before the law is what our legal system is based on and to say that this guy should receive special treatment because he was "the top of his class in high school and being smart enough to get into Harvard." undermines the fundamental basis of our justice system.

Last edited by Randomstudent; 10-30-2009 at 04:02 PM..
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Old 10-30-2009, 04:42 PM
 
Location: San Diego
2,518 posts, read 1,845,986 times
Reputation: 1298
Quote:
Originally Posted by Randomstudent View Post
I again have to agree with Arizonabear on this. Justice should be blind, brains or not, and the fact of the matter is this guy broke the law. There is already enough of a difference in justice for Harvard men and others who are fortunate enough to be smart and/or wealthy and those who are not so lucky. Why do you want to expand on that gap? The law clearly states that if someone is here illegally they should be detained, deported, and a banned from entering the US for a period of time. If you do not like that work to change it, but the law is the law and it needs to be enforced no matter who the offender is...whether they are a Harvard man or a day laborer equality before the law is what our legal system is based on and to say that this guy should receive special treatment because he was "the top of his class in high school and being smart enough to get into Harvard." undermines the fundamental basis of our justice system.
Should "justice" also be brainless and senseless?
What kind of "justice" is it to kick a kid out of the only country he's known as home for the past decade?
What CRIME did he commit?
He was just a little kid when he came over to the US, he excelled in school and earned his scholarship. How would it be "justice" to kick him out of the country because of a decision his parents made for him?
You have to be pretty deranged to actually think it's okay to deport a kid for something he has no control over.

Just because something is a law doesn't mean it's right. We've had plenty of evil laws, many of which were supported by the same bigots who post the anti-brown hate on these boards. Jim Crow laws, laws against interracial marriage, laws allowing men to beat their wives. These are all laws that this country has had. Are you saying that we should never have disobeyed these laws and tried to change them?

How is it going to hurt the US to allow a teenager who was the top of his AMERICAN High School class to attend the most prestigious university in the country?

Wouldn't it set a GOOD example for illegals by telling them "if you learn English, study hard and prove to be a valuable member of society, you too can stay in the US"?

Of course you guys will use those blanket terms to call me (a man who served his country, who continues to give back to society by volunteering with inner-city kids, some of whom come from the same background as Juan) a traitor when you are the ones being selfish. I believe in America, the melting pot worked for us...

Maybe the decline in society that so many here have complained about started with the first major immigration laws in the 1900s.

Prior to 1924 we never even had any laws on immigration, and the country went from nothing to a world power in that time. Then we installed more laws on immigration in the 1950s and that's when the US really began its decline. Immigration built this country, it didn't destroy it.
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Old 10-30-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,719,959 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
Should "justice" also be brainless and senseless?
What kind of "justice" is it to kick a kid out of the only country he's known as home for the past decade?
What CRIME did he commit?
He was just a little kid when he came over to the US, he excelled in school and earned his scholarship. How would it be "justice" to kick him out of the country because of a decision his parents made for him?
You have to be pretty deranged to actually think it's okay to deport a kid for something he has no control over.

Just because something is a law doesn't mean it's right. We've had plenty of evil laws, many of which were supported by the same bigots who post the anti-brown hate on these boards. Jim Crow laws, laws against interracial marriage, laws allowing men to beat their wives. These are all laws that this country has had. Are you saying that we should never have disobeyed these laws and tried to change them?

How is it going to hurt the US to allow a teenager who was the top of his AMERICAN High School class to attend the most prestigious university in the country?

Wouldn't it set a GOOD example for illegals by telling them "if you learn English, study hard and prove to be a valuable member of society, you too can stay in the US"?

Of course you guys will use those blanket terms to call me (a man who served his country, who continues to give back to society by volunteering with inner-city kids, some of whom come from the same background as Juan) a traitor when you are the ones being selfish. I believe in America, the melting pot worked for us...

Maybe the decline in society that so many here have complained about started with the first major immigration laws in the 1900s.

Prior to 1924 we never even had any laws on immigration, and the country went from nothing to a world power in that time. Then we installed more laws on immigration in the 1950s and that's when the US really began its decline. Immigration built this country, it didn't destroy it.
No justice should not be brainless and senseless, but all people need to be equal before the law. Otherwise you end up with something like 18th century Europe...one set of laws for the Nobles and wealthy and another set for everyone else. There are all sorts of things judges can take into consideration when weighing a case, but in the end the law must be upheld regardless of a persons social status.

This guy broke the law and yes some laws may not seem just to you, and you can certainly work to change them, but in the mean time the law is the law and rule of law is a cornerstone of our nation. To support people in willful flaunting the law undermines this and take us in a direction, whether it is you goal or not to go there, of creating different sets of laws for different people and that is unacceptable.

As to Jim Crow laws yes they were unjust, but the civil rights leaders who broke them fully expected to go to jail for violating them. They did not run or fight back, or expect special treatment when they were arrested. In fact, often the goal of protests was to get arrested. They violated the law with the understanding that they would be arrested for doing so and felt that it was necessary to have that occur in order to demonstrate the injustice of segregationist laws. That is not the case here. Illegals flaunt the law, expect there to be no concequences and want everyone else to see them as the victim. There is simply no comparison.

As to volunteering I do so as well, with an organization that provides legal services to victims of domestic violence, and I do not think you are a traitor. I simply see it as setting a dangerous precedent to not enforce laws, because of what schools a person goes to, how smart they are, how good their English is etc. As I said if you do not like the law, work to change it, but do not tell me that because someone "attend[s] the most prestigious university in the country" they should be above the law.

My Great Grandmother immigrated legally from Italy precisely to escape a system that treated people of a different social status [Nobility] under a different set of laws then everyone else. Following in that tradition I do not think the law should treat an illegal immigrant who goes to Harvard any different then an illegal immigrant who works a car wash. The law is the law on immigration and if you do not like it work to change it.

Last edited by Randomstudent; 10-30-2009 at 05:45 PM..
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Old 10-30-2009, 06:57 PM
 
Location: California
29,613 posts, read 31,923,958 times
Reputation: 24746
He isn't a "criminal", he isn't going to be "kicked out", and he isn't taking a spot from some American kid. He will be granted legal status. Fact is, he will probably be a leader in some field, in this country, maybe even employing some of your American kids. I wish we had a thousands more like him that we could grant citizenship to. Kind of like recruiting the best players for your team. LOL. I only wish we could trade some too.

Unfair? I don't know to who. But rules are there to be bent and laws subject to change. Logic and reason will hopefully always come out on top in a duel with a law.
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Old 10-30-2009, 07:24 PM
 
Location: Mesa, Az
21,148 posts, read 36,628,664 times
Reputation: 3785
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
He isn't a "criminal", he isn't going to be "kicked out", and he isn't taking a spot from some American kid. He will be granted legal status. Fact is, he will probably be a leader in some field, in this country, maybe even employing some of your American kids. I wish we had a thousands more like him that we could grant citizenship to. Kind of like recruiting the best players for your team. LOL. I only wish we could trade some too.

Unfair? I don't know to who. But rules are there to be bent and laws subject to change. Logic and reason will hopefully always come out on top in a duel with a law.
Try again.

If an American were in Mexico doing the exact same thing............how would a criminal under their laws. That nation don't like illegal aliens--------according to the Guatemalans in particular.
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Old 10-30-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: NC
10,005 posts, read 8,719,959 times
Reputation: 3062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
Unfair? I don't know to who. But rules are there to be bent and laws subject to change. Logic and reason will hopefully always come out on top in a duel with a law.
I certainly hope not. The law is the law and one person's logic is another person's fallacy. After all I am certain to many Bush seemed logical when he called the constitution "just a piece of paper". The law is the only constant in mediating disputes, bend it enough and you release the monsters of corruption, vigilantism, inequity and a million other detestable things.
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:13 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pug Life View Post
Should "justice" also be brainless and senseless?
What kind of "justice" is it to kick a kid out of the only country he's known as home for the past decade?
What CRIME did he commit?
He was just a little kid when he came over to the US, he excelled in school and earned his scholarship. How would it be "justice" to kick him out of the country because of a decision his parents made for him?
You have to be pretty deranged to actually think it's okay to deport a kid for something he has no control over.

Just because something is a law doesn't mean it's right. We've had plenty of evil laws, many of which were supported by the same bigots who post the anti-brown hate on these boards. Jim Crow laws, laws against interracial marriage, laws allowing men to beat their wives. These are all laws that this country has had. Are you saying that we should never have disobeyed these laws and tried to change them?

How is it going to hurt the US to allow a teenager who was the top of his AMERICAN High School class to attend the most prestigious university in the country?

Wouldn't it set a GOOD example for illegals by telling them "if you learn English, study hard and prove to be a valuable member of society, you too can stay in the US"?

Of course you guys will use those blanket terms to call me (a man who served his country, who continues to give back to society by volunteering with inner-city kids, some of whom come from the same background as Juan) a traitor when you are the ones being selfish. I believe in America, the melting pot worked for us...

Maybe the decline in society that so many here have complained about started with the first major immigration laws in the 1900s.

Prior to 1924 we never even had any laws on immigration, and the country went from nothing to a world power in that time. Then we installed more laws on immigration in the 1950s and that's when the US really began its decline. Immigration built this country, it didn't destroy it.
Right, legal immigration helped build this country and didn't destroy it but ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION will!

Last edited by chicagonut; 10-31-2009 at 08:40 AM..
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Old 10-31-2009, 07:16 AM
 
14,307 posts, read 11,152,437 times
Reputation: 2130
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceece View Post
He isn't a "criminal", he isn't going to be "kicked out", and he isn't taking a spot from some American kid. He will be granted legal status. Fact is, he will probably be a leader in some field, in this country, maybe even employing some of your American kids. I wish we had a thousands more like him that we could grant citizenship to. Kind of like recruiting the best players for your team. LOL. I only wish we could trade some too.

Unfair? I don't know to who. But rules are there to be bent and laws subject to change. Logic and reason will hopefully always come out on top in a duel with a law.
Laws are meant to be bent? Is this a culutral thing or a far left liberal thing or both? Guess that nullifies our creed "we are a nation of laws", right? Yes, laws can be changed but we need to abide by them until or if they are changed and not before!
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Old 11-04-2009, 06:03 PM
 
2,721 posts, read 3,232,652 times
Reputation: 1536
Illegal immigration made this country, were Europeans legal? Did they overstay their visas?
Nonsense.
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