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Old 02-23-2009, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,866,907 times
Reputation: 3677

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Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
Identity theft happens whether illegal immigrants do it or not. As long as you have people who work for Social Security selling your number, it's not going to stop. As long as you have companies selling your information to each other, it's not going to stop. That's an entirely different discussion.

I agree on the criminal issue. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who is caught comitting a crime should be immediately deported and measures should be taken to ensure that they don't come back. That doesn't include anything that warrants the life in prison or the death penalty because many countries will not place them in jail once deported and they won't extradite them.

My gard- sorry, he prefers landscaper- is white and so is my pool guy.

I'm just talking about taxes. Like I said, since no politician (especially none here in CA) wants to trully take the measures to crack down on the problem I say we get them paying taxes ASAP so that we can generate some much needed revenue.
I have NEVER heard of anyone working for Social Security selling numbers. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's certainly not a big problem. The way most of the illegals do it in Texas is they have sleazy midwives making up fake birth certificates for Mexican-born people and sleazy notary publics forging and stamping fake documents. The illegals then use these to obtain Social Security numbers through the usual process or they obtain fake Social Security cards in hopes the employers won't check them.

PLUS, there's identity theft. When I lived on the Border, we were regularly warned not to throw anything with valuable info in the trash because they frequently caught people rummaging through garbage at residences and businesses.

But you ignored the rest of my post, oddly enough. You're going to reward people for, in effect, "stealing" the benefits of citizenship while others are doing things the right way? Soon, people won't even bother to apply. They'll just pay to be smuggled in or overstay their visas, like all of the Latin Americans.

And you're thrilled to just excuse millions of uneducated, low-skilled people of Latino heritage? Great. When you import the Third World, you become the Third World. The projections for Texas, if this unthwarted illegal immigration doesn't stop, are GRIM. Within 40 years, we would see the majority of the population lacking even a high school diploma and job skills. I do NOT want to live in that sort of environment.

Why would YOU? Why would ANYONE want to turn their state into a Third World environment? If you'd like to live that way, by all means -- move to poverty-ridden sections of Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador. But don't force your desires on the rest of us.

Beyond that, why should we give our immigration preference over to Latin America? Sorry, but I'd like to see more educated professionals admitted for citizenship. THOSE are the people who pay higher taxes and contribute the most to our society.

You do realize, don't you, that any taxes paid by immigrant Latinos working for $6 an hour are seriously DWARFED by the amount of social services for which they then qualify? Basically, the government owes THEM a pile of money when they file their taxes! So, let's see, which ones would be of bigger benefit -- the couple from Mexico who work as a housekeeper and a dishwasher and need a plethora of social services to raise their four kids or the couple from Asia who work as a computer engineer and a schoolteacher with combined salaries in the six figures?

Couple No. 1 represents the majority of the people you want given amnesty. How you think their "taxes" would benefit the country is beyond me.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:54 AM
 
14,806 posts, read 18,801,729 times
Reputation: 11772
Give credit where credit is due:

Ronald Reagan's 1986 Illegals amnesty
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Texas
8,062 posts, read 15,866,907 times
Reputation: 3677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dopo View Post
Give credit where credit is due:

Ronald Reagan's 1986 Illegals amnesty
Exactly. And why anyone would want to repeat or laud that fiasco is beyond me.
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Old 02-23-2009, 12:29 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
Why not? First of all, many of them are using fake documents (fake birth certificates, immigration papers, etc.) and identity theft to work here. A woman in our area had her identity stolen by an illegal immigrant and the IRS was making HER pay the $40,000 in back taxes that the Guatemalan immigrant racked up using her name. It was up to the VICTIM to prove that she wasn't working in the Northeast and not paying her taxes -- until it could be proven, she was responsible for the tax bill.

Do you REALLY want to give amnesty to people who have stolen the identities of American citizens and are breaking the law in umpteen ways while other people are OBEYING our laws and waiting until their immigration status is in order before they come?

Let me put it another way. If you owned a store, would you agree that shoplifters were just as entitled to the merchandise they stole as your paying customers were in paying for what they bought? What do you think would happen if that were the case? The paying customers would wonder why they were paying when you could apparently just walk in and steal what you wanted, so you would soon see fewer paying customers and more shoplifters. That would be great for business, huh?

Do you realize that about 30 percent of our prison population is comprised of illegal immigrants? We're NOT just attracting those poor, hard-working individuals who only want a better life -- we also get drug dealers, human smugglers, and criminals of every sort. Give them "amnesty" and we're stuck with them forever.

We need immigration laws to be enforced. Our country is not a free-for-all. For our own economy and social stability, we should only admit immigrants according to our societal needs and the numbers we can handle. The vast majority of the illegal immigrants are uneducated, unskilled laborers who are more of a drain on our society's services than contributing members. Giving these hordes blanket amnesty means that we are voluntarily importing millions of uneducated people from Latin America at the expense of admitting HIGHLY skilled, HIGHLY educated immigrants from Europe and Asia who WOULD contribute valuable expertise to our society and pay higher taxes.

So, why would anyone possibly advocate for shutting out high-skilled workers from other countries to cater to the poor, unskilled Latino masses? Hate to sound crass, but immigration is supposed to provide a balance and not simply bring in anyone who can run across our Border. Why give Latin America preference and discriminate against black, white and Asian immigrants in not having an equal chance of becoming part of American society? We don't owe Latin America anything.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fox Terrier View Post
Nope, that won't work. As soon as all the illegals are 'legal' and getting the same pay as American citizens, employers will let THEM go in favor of millions more illegals who, being encouraged by amnesty, will cross the border and work for less money or drop anchor and swell the rolls of welfare. If nothing is done to stop the influx of illegal aliens it will be a never-ending 10 year cycle. The United States has limited natural resources; we cannot feed/clothe/house the world.
Quote:
Originally Posted by teatime View Post
I have NEVER heard of anyone working for Social Security selling numbers. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but it's certainly not a big problem. The way most of the illegals do it in Texas is they have sleazy midwives making up fake birth certificates for Mexican-born people and sleazy notary publics forging and stamping fake documents. The illegals then use these to obtain Social Security numbers through the usual process or they obtain fake Social Security cards in hopes the employers won't check them.

PLUS, there's identity theft. When I lived on the Border, we were regularly warned not to throw anything with valuable info in the trash because they frequently caught people rummaging through garbage at residences and businesses.

But you ignored the rest of my post, oddly enough. You're going to reward people for, in effect, "stealing" the benefits of citizenship while others are doing things the right way? Soon, people won't even bother to apply. They'll just pay to be smuggled in or overstay their visas, like all of the Latin Americans.

And you're thrilled to just excuse millions of uneducated, low-skilled people of Latino heritage? Great. When you import the Third World, you become the Third World. The projections for Texas, if this unthwarted illegal immigration doesn't stop, are GRIM. Within 40 years, we would see the majority of the population lacking even a high school diploma and job skills. I do NOT want to live in that sort of environment.

Why would YOU? Why would ANYONE want to turn their state into a Third World environment? If you'd like to live that way, by all means -- move to poverty-ridden sections of Mexico, Guatemala or El Salvador. But don't force your desires on the rest of us.

Beyond that, why should we give our immigration preference over to Latin America? Sorry, but I'd like to see more educated professionals admitted for citizenship. THOSE are the people who pay higher taxes and contribute the most to our society.

You do realize, don't you, that any taxes paid by immigrant Latinos working for $6 an hour are seriously DWARFED by the amount of social services for which they then qualify? Basically, the government owes THEM a pile of money when they file their taxes! So, let's see, which ones would be of bigger benefit -- the couple from Mexico who work as a housekeeper and a dishwasher and need a plethora of social services to raise their four kids or the couple from Asia who work as a computer engineer and a schoolteacher with combined salaries in the six figures?

Couple No. 1 represents the majority of the people you want given amnesty. How you think their "taxes" would benefit the country is beyond me.
These posts say it all.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:03 PM
 
Location: USA
200 posts, read 299,298 times
Reputation: 66
#1. reason NOT to give Amnesty to illegal aliens is:

They will out breed us and become the majority of the "Vote". They'll change the laws and open the borders and we will become a 3rd world cesspool, just like the countries the illegal aliens come from. The illegal aliens have low intelligence and high adrenalin and they will rape, rob and pilliage America, worse than they already are.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:07 PM
 
2,088 posts, read 2,186,043 times
Reputation: 1263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vlad-The-Impaler View Post
#1. reason NOT to give Amnesty to illegal aliens is:

They'll out breed us and become the majority of the "Vote". They'll change the laws and open the borders and we will become a 3rd world cesspool, just like the countries the illegal aliens come from.
Unfrotunately, illegals will outbreed legals whether we give amnesty or not until birthright citizenship is ended.
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Old 02-23-2009, 01:34 PM
 
1,117 posts, read 1,746,816 times
Reputation: 965
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatmancomics View Post
There have already been threads opened discussing the fact that the middle class is fleeing the suburbs of Los Angeles (in the L.A. forum), the fact that employers are hiring illegal immigrants in order to get cheap labor (in the general Politics and Other Controversies) and everyone in California that pays attention knows that the state was depending on illegal immigrant revenue to help balance the lack of revenue. The most common complaints are how they are a drain on the economy because they don't pay any taxes yet take full advantage of the programs that taxes pay for such as education and assistance for their children and help with their medical care. The lack of assimilation is no different than the lack of assimilation from any other group in this countries past and current history. If that were the case, there would be no Chinatowns or Little Italies or Korea Towns or Little Tokyos in this country. Besides, I don't know anyone of any "race" that doesn't enjoy a taco here and there so don't start derailing this thread with racist rederick.
So, they're here, they're not leaving, hardly any of us are doing anything to get them out and the INS sure isn't doing a good job of getting them out and keeping them out. So how do we turn the situation around? Building a wall isn't going to work and nobody wants to pay more taxes and you can't build some great wall at our southern border without rasing taxes.
In the end, the final solution seems, to me anyway, has to be amnesty. Amnesty would grant all these people social security numbers which would, in turn, give us more residents paying taxes. They would no longer need to accept payment under the table but if they did, then the IRS could audit them and make them pay penalties for not declaring them. You could even do the old bait and switch by making a "here by" date like the old amnesty and then charge them back taxes for the time that they have been here. Those who can't afford to pay the taxes would leave and those who can would stay.
Amnesty would also reduce the illegal alien population and give the INS a chance to get rid of the ones who don't qualify and trully crack down on the border.
For the record, I am an immigrant but neither I or any members of my family were ever here illegaly. We filed our papers, paid our money and waited close to ten years to get here. We flew, not walked accross the border and, though I am sympathetic to the reasons why people are forced to come here illegaly, I don't approve of anyone wasting their time once they get here or of their lack of parental skills resulting in their children becoming criminals. Neither do I approve of the lack of assimilation (you have to at least learn the lanugage of the country you're living in, for god's sakes) of any immigrant or of the abuse of government programs such as welfare by anyone, immigrant or not. Something needs to be done, though, and no politician is going to commit political suicide and say, "Get them all out". They want to be here, at least some of the population wants them here so that they can get cheap labor out of them so why not make them pay for being here through taxes?
Not only do you need to learn to use your spell check, but you also need to get a clue. WHY would you reward the illegals with amnesty? That's like letting the bank robber keep the money
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:15 PM
 
8,973 posts, read 14,612,395 times
Reputation: 2983
Quite aside from the fact that "The Final Solution" sounds EERILY like the words of an angry little man in Germany, a long time ago, who had a SERIOUS fetish about Jews, it's a silly notion anyway. We've HAD amnesties before..one of which 'wiped the slate clean' and benefitted some THREE MILLION people...and others which benefitted a lot, too. Did it 'work'.?..I don't know....does it look to YOU like it worked? Read over the 'immigration' forum, and tell ME how amnesty 'worked'. Worked to incite feelings of entitlement in OTHERS, maybe? Worked to demonstrate the notion that 'laws are a joke, and the loudest guy 'wins?' Worked to incite frustration in SUBSEQUENT waves of illegals?....Maybe..

"Final solution", giving amnesty to 20 million lawbreakers?....more like the "Final Chance"... to demonstrate that our laws are the only thing that makes our society possible....and if they lose their respectability, it may be the "final phase" of a once free society....next step, "NEW ways of living"..(maybe getting used to a "new", less free, form of government ?).

"Final solution", indeed. And I have a large orange bridge for sale in San Francisco, which I'd be GLAD to sell, if the offer is reasonable...
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Old 02-23-2009, 02:38 PM
 
Location: Maryland
15,179 posts, read 15,807,269 times
Reputation: 3028
Quote:
Originally Posted by macmeal View Post
Quite aside from the fact that "The Final Solution" sounds EERILY like the words of an angry little man in Germany, a long time ago, who had a SERIOUS fetish about Jews, it's a silly notion anyway. We've HAD amnesties before..one of which 'wiped the slate clean' and benefitted some THREE MILLION people...and others which benefitted a lot, too. Did it 'work'.?..I don't know....does it look to YOU like it worked? Read over the 'immigration' forum, and tell ME how amnesty 'worked'. Worked to incite feelings of entitlement in OTHERS, maybe? Worked to demonstrate the notion that 'laws are a joke, and the loudest guy 'wins?' Worked to incite frustration in SUBSEQUENT waves of illegals?....Maybe..

"Final solution", giving amnesty to 20 million lawbreakers?....more like the "Final Chance"... to demonstrate that our laws are the only thing that makes our society possible....and if they lose their respectability, it may be the "final phase" of a once free society....next step, "NEW ways of living"..(maybe getting used to a "new", less free, form of government ?).

"Final solution", indeed. And I have a large orange bridge for sale in San Francisco, which I'd be GLAD to sell, if the offer is reasonable...
I think the proposed “final solution” would actually result in the “final chapter” for this country. It is unrealistic to believe our country could possibly survive another amnesty; in particular, an amnesty for 20+ million with such unreserved lack of respect for our country. If the amnesty in 1986 resulted in 20+ million more illegals today, imagine what 20+ million will yield in the future.
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Old 02-23-2009, 11:22 PM
 
898 posts, read 1,242,134 times
Reputation: 1007
To quote Nacho Libre: "Hey! Take it easy!"
I was just brainstorming here since the biggest problem is here, in L.A. where I live and since, like I said, nobody seems to be willing to enforce the laws that are already in the books for fear of looking like the big meanie who is sending back the poor, the tired, the huddled masses.
I can admit when I'm wrong and when I come up with a hair brained idea. Maybe this was one of those times.
As far as the racist attacks, not worth discussing since those are folks who don't deal in reason anyway.
As far as the spelling; thanks for pointing it out. How about typing the correct spelling for me next time? Sometimes I just type away and click the "post" button without reading over what I just typed and this forum doesn't allow you to go back and edit your own posts. I didn't get any little, red, squigly lines for those words and yet I get them for words with apostrophes like "doesn't".
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